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> because that way counting is much more unambiguous: dead is dead Unrealistically low death stats coming from Turkey compared to cases easily refute that argu

> because that way counting is much more unambiguous: dead is dead Unrealistically low death stats coming from Turkey compared to cases easily refute that argument. Dead is dead, unless the state finds a way to claim that it was not a COVID19 dead.

asveikau 6y ago
I would add that it doesn't have to be a malicious government purposefully undercounting. It's very easy to undercount or misdiagnose even with competent and well meaning people. Specifically every pneumonia death, heart attack, stroke is a potential undercount, and people aren't "bad people" or evil for making the wrong conclusion about the ultimate cause, especially when testing is less available and frequent than it should be. Also I have heard that there are a significant number of people dying of COVID19 in their homes and that those are more likely to be undercounted vs. a death in a hospital.
gaius_baltar 6y ago
> Dead is dead, unless the state finds a way to claim that it was not a COVID19 dead. It's just a matter of demanding tests to declare as a COVID death and do not providing enough tests. Brazil, for example, has an artificially low count of cases due to the lack of tests and a similarly low number of deaths. However, cases of death by "pneumonia", generic types of SARS and "unexplained respiratory diseases" skyrocketed: https://oglobo.globo.com/sociedade/coronavirus/alem-da-covid-19-brasil-tem-outras-2771-mortes-por-problemas-respiratorios-sem-explicacao-24389276 https://oglobo.globo.com/sociedade/coronavirus/alem-da-covid...
- lostlogin 6y ago
  This has occurred in many countries and will presumably be part of way the final impact is finally measured. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...
snovv_crash 6y ago
Or the other way around, someone who dies in a car crash but tests positive could count as a COVID death.
cies 6y ago
I said "dead is dead" in relation to all cause (not "only covid") mortality figures.
- bobongo 6y ago
  I saw it just now. My apologies.
krisoft 6y ago
No. Not unless. You misunderstand what all cause mortality means. The state can count COVID19 deaths as all bungee-jumping related the number still shows up in the total death rate. If you know what is the usual statistic you can show if there is an effect. This is what “dead is dead” mean. One can argue what should count as a COVID19 case, and how exactly we are counting. There is a lot less argument over who is dead and who is not.
- bobongo 6y ago
  > You misunderstand what all cause mortality means. It seems I actually missed the mention of "all-cause" while reading the comment.
- autokad 6y ago
  a family member who is a doctor at a hospital told me that any patient that dies of a respiratory illness is being marked as covid19 even if they were never tested for it. dead truly means dead. dead by covid19 does not.

asveikau 6y ago

I would add that it doesn't have to be a malicious government purposefully undercounting. It's very easy to undercount or misdiagnose even with competent and well meaning people. Specifically every pneumonia death, heart attack, stroke is a potential undercount, and people aren't "bad people" or evil for making the wrong conclusion about the ultimate cause, especially when testing is less available and frequent than it should be. Also I have heard that there are a significant number of people dying of COVID19 in their homes and that those are more likely to be undercounted vs. a death in a hospital.

gaius_baltar 6y ago

> Dead is dead, unless the state finds a way to claim that it was not a COVID19 dead. It's just a matter of demanding tests to declare as a COVID death and do not providing enough tests. Brazil, for example, has an artificially low count of cases due to the lack of tests and a similarly low number of deaths. However, cases of death by "pneumonia", generic types of SARS and "unexplained respiratory diseases" skyrocketed: https://oglobo.globo.com/sociedade/coronavirus/alem-da-covid-19-brasil-tem-outras-2771-mortes-por-problemas-respiratorios-sem-explicacao-24389276 https://oglobo.globo.com/sociedade/coronavirus/alem-da-covid...

lostlogin 6y ago
This has occurred in many countries and will presumably be part of way the final impact is finally measured. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...

snovv_crash 6y ago

Or the other way around, someone who dies in a car crash but tests positive could count as a COVID death.

cies 6y ago

I said "dead is dead" in relation to all cause (not "only covid") mortality figures.

bobongo 6y ago
I saw it just now. My apologies.

krisoft 6y ago

No. Not unless. You misunderstand what all cause mortality means. The state can count COVID19 deaths as all bungee-jumping related the number still shows up in the total death rate. If you know what is the usual statistic you can show if there is an effect. This is what “dead is dead” mean. One can argue what should count as a COVID19 case, and how exactly we are counting. There is a lot less argument over who is dead and who is not.

bobongo 6y ago
> You misunderstand what all cause mortality means. It seems I actually missed the mention of "all-cause" while reading the comment.
autokad 6y ago
a family member who is a doctor at a hospital told me that any patient that dies of a respiratory illness is being marked as covid19 even if they were never tested for it. dead truly means dead. dead by covid19 does not.