7 ms·

His post is not addressing this issue of bank fees hes making a wider point about bailouts in general. I am simply reminding him that airline companies who did

by volak 6y ago

His post is not addressing this issue of bank fees hes making a wider point about bailouts in general. I am simply reminding him that airline companies who did nothing wrong have people depending on them for their paychecks. Exactly the same as a child depends on their parent. And in this case the money given to AIRLINES helps a lot of parents feed their children

viklove 6y ago
...just give them money directly to those parents instead. When you give money to the airlines, those airlines like handing out bonuses to their execs, and initiating stock buybacks with the confidence that they'll get bailed out in case hard times hit. Airlines are not parents, and they are not invested in their employees wellbeing. It's a false equivalency because an employer-employee relation is nothing like a parent-child relation. > airline companies who did nothing wrong Airline companies did do something wrong. They didn't prepare for this situation when they had cash reserves, instead they initiated buybacks to enrich board members and executives. Greed should not be rewarded, wisdom and caution should.
- volak 6y ago
  You are assuming this deal is the same as previous ones. Its not even close https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-airlines-details-its-5-billion-bailout-share-2020-04-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-airlines-details-it... Grants for employee salaries and benefits like health insurance, low interest loan to be paid back, and a stake in the company in the form of equity. And all with strings attached so they can't hand out bonuses or lobby congress. Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. Their tickets have to be as cheap as possible and they have to market to as many people as possible. Its unreasonable to ask them to lay out millions on the chance an act of god rolls through. As a company they have plenty of ways to raise capital to weather major events, including selling stock, which is what they are doing - to the government in exchange for favorable loans and a grant.
  - viklove 6y ago
    > Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. Huh. Where did they get the money for the stock buybacks they initiated last year?
    - volak 6y ago
      Repurchasing shares is what companies do with profits they cannot effectively leverage into new investments. I suggest you read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase But to sum up: if you are a company with $1 million on hand at the end of the year you have to disperse it somehow. - If you put it in a bank account you'll earn 0.2% interest on your "investment" - If you pay out dividends your shareholders will earn 1-2% (estimate) on their investments - If you buy back your own stock your shareholders can see 4-5% (estimate) on their investments + you have shares you can award to employees in the form of options or direct without diluting the market The number 1 factor in your decision? Taxes. Which option pays the least tax? Option 3
      - viklove 6y ago
        > Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. So you're admitting that this statement you made is just patently false, thanks.

by volak 6y ago

viklove 6y ago

...just give them money directly to those parents instead. When you give money to the airlines, those airlines like handing out bonuses to their execs, and initiating stock buybacks with the confidence that they'll get bailed out in case hard times hit. Airlines are not parents, and they are not invested in their employees wellbeing. It's a false equivalency because an employer-employee relation is nothing like a parent-child relation. > airline companies who did nothing wrong Airline companies did do something wrong. They didn't prepare for this situation when they had cash reserves, instead they initiated buybacks to enrich board members and executives. Greed should not be rewarded, wisdom and caution should.

volak 6y ago
You are assuming this deal is the same as previous ones. Its not even close https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-airlines-details-its-5-billion-bailout-share-2020-04-15 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-airlines-details-it... Grants for employee salaries and benefits like health insurance, low interest loan to be paid back, and a stake in the company in the form of equity. And all with strings attached so they can't hand out bonuses or lobby congress. Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. Their tickets have to be as cheap as possible and they have to market to as many people as possible. Its unreasonable to ask them to lay out millions on the chance an act of god rolls through. As a company they have plenty of ways to raise capital to weather major events, including selling stock, which is what they are doing - to the government in exchange for favorable loans and a grant.
- viklove 6y ago
  > Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. Huh. Where did they get the money for the stock buybacks they initiated last year?
  - volak 6y ago
    Repurchasing shares is what companies do with profits they cannot effectively leverage into new investments. I suggest you read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase But to sum up: if you are a company with $1 million on hand at the end of the year you have to disperse it somehow. - If you put it in a bank account you'll earn 0.2% interest on your "investment" - If you pay out dividends your shareholders will earn 1-2% (estimate) on their investments - If you buy back your own stock your shareholders can see 4-5% (estimate) on their investments + you have shares you can award to employees in the form of options or direct without diluting the market The number 1 factor in your decision? Taxes. Which option pays the least tax? Option 3
    - viklove 6y ago
      > Businesses operate on revenue and margin and companies like airlines can't justify using even 1% of its revenue to "save" for rainy days. So you're admitting that this statement you made is just patently false, thanks.