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Fellow ADHD sufferer here to second this. Thinking about ADHD as a deficit of motivation, which is much more accurate than an attention-oriented view, tends to

Fellow ADHD sufferer here to second this. Thinking about ADHD as a deficit of motivation, which is much more accurate than an attention-oriented view, tends to clarify this sort of situation.

dvcrn 6y ago
Giving a third +1 here. I had (have) similar issues with motivation and got diagnosed with ADHD at age 25. I'd describe it as "a disability of knowing how to do something, but not actually doing it unless there are external consequences involved"
- ExtremisAndy 6y ago
  Oh wow... you just described me with frightening accuracy. I’ve never seen my issue described so clearly and concisely. Basically, if there aren’t negative consequences for me not completing a task, my brain simply never gets motivated. It’s almost as if my brain is saying: “meh... you don’t really have to do this... so go play on Facebook some more”. If I could resolve this issue which has plagued me for years, it would revolutionize my life and career.
  - dvcrn 6y ago
    When in doubt always best to talk to a doc. Best case you are completely fine, but doesn't hurt checking. (The irony is that people with ADHD are probably the least likely to get up by themselves and make an appointment given that there are no consequences of not doing it lol) ADHD is of course not just motivation but a spectrum of symptoms. I'd highly recommend listening to Dr. Russell Barkley talk about ADHD on this playlist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg6cfsnmqyg&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg6cfsnmqyg&list=PLzBixSjmbc... Watch from 1B onwards and see if you feel like it describes you
- thatsenough 6y ago
  How do you differentiate this from laziness/apathy?
  - twocats 6y ago
    Laziness and/or apathy are value judgments; they offer no useful insight into behaviour unless you believe that sin is a real thing.
    - thatsenough 6y ago
      Not really. You're choosing a definition those words that involves a value judgement.
  - internet_user 6y ago
    apathy can be part of dysexecutive syndromes, such as ADHD. To be pedantic, apathy is lack of emotion and interest. Often that is not the case in ADHD. The hallmark of that syndrome is the inability to follow through/self-regulate behavior/plan actions to achieve the objective they are interested in.
  - dvcrn 6y ago
    The feeling can feel similar which is probably why a lot of people think they are just lazy. But ADHD is more of a reduced / lack of self-drive combined with a self-regulation + internal prioritization problem. Maybe a bit like laziness but the feeling is multiplied. I of course have moments when I feel lazy and just don't want to do anything, but then there are the other moments when I want to do something, work on a project, practice a hobby but just don't. There is this disconnect, it's hard to explain Best to look at other key ADHD symptoms as well like emotional regulation, rejection sensitve dysphoria, focus, (mental) hyperactivity (= your brain can't just chill), the need to constantly do something, impulsiveness (like with money), etc etc etc. It's of course a spectrum and some people are worse in x while other people suffer more on y. Best to talk to a doc if it affects your life. Could be ADHD, could be something else. It's very common though so admitting that there might be a problem is the first step to getting better
kharak 6y ago
I have trouble focusing on work most of the time and lack the motivation for almost everything, unless not doing it would cause problems. But everything I've read about ADHD doesn't sound like a me at all. Never heard of your way of describing it though.
- dvcrn 6y ago
  I just posted a comment below that sounds like that - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22920256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22920256 Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline. Dumb examples are - your homework unless the deadline comes closer - a amazon box that you know the contents of but currently don’t need it, so it stays packaged standing around until you need the item or the space - dishes - a todo list item that’s floating around for weeks that takes minutes to complete but has no deadline Then at other moments something just grabs your attention and it becomes the most important thing right now even if you should be doing something else. Like finding a new tool or programming language that you really want to use immediately, or randomly cleaning your entrance area NOW even though you should be leaving for the train to make a meeting.
  - kharak 6y ago
    Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline. Yes, that would be me. I know what I need to do in so many ways. But doing it? If it isn't a habit or some form of negative emotion forces me to do it, almost impossible. There are, of course, exceptions. But in general, absolutely. Homework Yes, same with tasks / Jira stories today. Amazon box There is a printer inside a box in my living room that I need to print a work related document. It's now there for like 8 days? My office wrote me, that they need that document and boy don't I care about it, as it is merely a formality. So yes, total check. Dishes See, this is why I'm not completely convinced ADHD matches me. I never leave dishes behind. When I'm done cooking, even before I take the first bite, the kitchen is in perfect condition. Vacuuming my room on the other hand... Todo lists I need them to be productive, but my personal todo list tends to remain on my whiteboard for weeks or months until I do everything possible in one rush. I guess that is also a match? Your last paragraph sounds like doing things compulsively, things that aren't important right now. That is also a no match for me. I get hyper focused from time to time, although that has gotten quit rare in recent years. But I've never not went to a meeting or something similar because of it. If I need to do something, if I start to feel negative about it, I'll get it done no matter what. I'd feel quite awkward not getting to meetings, so that doesn't happen. Maybe this is still a match? Edit: On the other hand, I should complete a Jira story right now. But now I'm here and listening to a ADD related talk from another comment. But I really should work on that story to finish it. But I kind of have an open deadline. But it gets steadily more embarrassing that I haven't finished it. Uh oh.
agumonkey 6y ago
Anybody feels that ADHD or similar issues are often a sign that you're not doing things that you need to to be happy ? Like running after something for the wrong reasons ? Kinda like Bukowski "don't try" ? ps: to explain more, there were times where a) I was slowly but surely inspired by a topic and would just keep wondering and thinking about it, 'hard' or not, it was similar to walking a mental park b) I was motivated by desires (greatness, potential financial gains, social status, some faith that the outcome would make me feel happy) but now my feelings about them have changed so it feels pointless. I feel a lot better when doing things that have no real goal but actually procure a lightweight joy. For instance, I used to equate more study to more possibilities and capacity to 1) create more (joy) 2) get a good job. But my experience was that these efforts weren't useful in reality. Even though I got some FP moocs, solved problems alone, I'm still stuck too often, and recruiters don't give a damn. It all erodes your happiness/ROI center.
- internet_user 6y ago
  Depression (and many other illnesses, autoimmune, hormonal deficiencies, sleep disorders, all kinds of dementia and other neurological illnesses) will produce a dysexecutive syndrome that's very similar, if not indisginuishable, from ADHD. In your specific case you may want to read up on something called "learned helplessness". Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely. That is different from ADHD. ADHD in itself is really a diagnosis of exclusion, where no clear cause can be found.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    > Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely. Funny how my conclusions today are the opposite. I didn't quit early enough somehow. Well it's hard to tell, tbh, I've spent years learning hard stuff without any real benefit. So many a different course of action would make sense :)
  - eru 6y ago
    In practice, ADHD is what you have when stimulants make you get better. If your laundry lists of symptoms (depression, sleep disorders, lack of motivation etc) get better from stimulants, count yourself lucky. Stimulants work right away, if they work at all, and have few and relatively mild side-effects. Some of the side-effects, like weight loss, are even seen as welcome by many people. Others like having to pee more often and cold hands are relatively easy to deal with. For comparison, antidepressants take months to show even mild positive effects; and have major side-effects.
internet_user 6y ago
ADHD is best described as impaired self-directed behavior. The kernel of motivation may exist, but an ADHD victim would fail to follow through on that motivation, to their own detriment. Either due to lack of concentration, lack of planning, or lack of execution. Often all of the above. It is a general dysexecutive syndrome that that may impact all higher order cognitive functions. Motivation, on the other hand can also be impaired by depression (aka "learned helplessness" - which is not uncommon in ADHD), but that would not be ADHD in itself.

Fellow ADHD sufferer here to second this. Thinking about ADHD as a deficit of motivation, which is much more accurate than an attention-oriented view, tends to clarify this sort of situation.

dvcrn 6y ago

Giving a third +1 here. I had (have) similar issues with motivation and got diagnosed with ADHD at age 25. I'd describe it as "a disability of knowing how to do something, but not actually doing it unless there are external consequences involved"

ExtremisAndy 6y ago
Oh wow... you just described me with frightening accuracy. I’ve never seen my issue described so clearly and concisely. Basically, if there aren’t negative consequences for me not completing a task, my brain simply never gets motivated. It’s almost as if my brain is saying: “meh... you don’t really have to do this... so go play on Facebook some more”. If I could resolve this issue which has plagued me for years, it would revolutionize my life and career.
- dvcrn 6y ago
  When in doubt always best to talk to a doc. Best case you are completely fine, but doesn't hurt checking. (The irony is that people with ADHD are probably the least likely to get up by themselves and make an appointment given that there are no consequences of not doing it lol) ADHD is of course not just motivation but a spectrum of symptoms. I'd highly recommend listening to Dr. Russell Barkley talk about ADHD on this playlist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg6cfsnmqyg&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg6cfsnmqyg&list=PLzBixSjmbc... Watch from 1B onwards and see if you feel like it describes you
thatsenough 6y ago
How do you differentiate this from laziness/apathy?
- twocats 6y ago
  Laziness and/or apathy are value judgments; they offer no useful insight into behaviour unless you believe that sin is a real thing.
  - thatsenough 6y ago
    Not really. You're choosing a definition those words that involves a value judgement.
- internet_user 6y ago
  apathy can be part of dysexecutive syndromes, such as ADHD. To be pedantic, apathy is lack of emotion and interest. Often that is not the case in ADHD. The hallmark of that syndrome is the inability to follow through/self-regulate behavior/plan actions to achieve the objective they are interested in.
- dvcrn 6y ago
  The feeling can feel similar which is probably why a lot of people think they are just lazy. But ADHD is more of a reduced / lack of self-drive combined with a self-regulation + internal prioritization problem. Maybe a bit like laziness but the feeling is multiplied. I of course have moments when I feel lazy and just don't want to do anything, but then there are the other moments when I want to do something, work on a project, practice a hobby but just don't. There is this disconnect, it's hard to explain Best to look at other key ADHD symptoms as well like emotional regulation, rejection sensitve dysphoria, focus, (mental) hyperactivity (= your brain can't just chill), the need to constantly do something, impulsiveness (like with money), etc etc etc. It's of course a spectrum and some people are worse in x while other people suffer more on y. Best to talk to a doc if it affects your life. Could be ADHD, could be something else. It's very common though so admitting that there might be a problem is the first step to getting better

kharak 6y ago

I have trouble focusing on work most of the time and lack the motivation for almost everything, unless not doing it would cause problems. But everything I've read about ADHD doesn't sound like a me at all. Never heard of your way of describing it though.

dvcrn 6y ago
I just posted a comment below that sounds like that - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22920256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22920256 Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline. Dumb examples are - your homework unless the deadline comes closer - a amazon box that you know the contents of but currently don’t need it, so it stays packaged standing around until you need the item or the space - dishes - a todo list item that’s floating around for weeks that takes minutes to complete but has no deadline Then at other moments something just grabs your attention and it becomes the most important thing right now even if you should be doing something else. Like finding a new tool or programming language that you really want to use immediately, or randomly cleaning your entrance area NOW even though you should be leaving for the train to make a meeting.
- kharak 6y ago
  Adhd feels like knowing how to do something and knowing you should do it, but not actually doing it. It’s like your inner drive is very weak unless there is an external consequence involved, like a deadline. Yes, that would be me. I know what I need to do in so many ways. But doing it? If it isn't a habit or some form of negative emotion forces me to do it, almost impossible. There are, of course, exceptions. But in general, absolutely. Homework Yes, same with tasks / Jira stories today. Amazon box There is a printer inside a box in my living room that I need to print a work related document. It's now there for like 8 days? My office wrote me, that they need that document and boy don't I care about it, as it is merely a formality. So yes, total check. Dishes See, this is why I'm not completely convinced ADHD matches me. I never leave dishes behind. When I'm done cooking, even before I take the first bite, the kitchen is in perfect condition. Vacuuming my room on the other hand... Todo lists I need them to be productive, but my personal todo list tends to remain on my whiteboard for weeks or months until I do everything possible in one rush. I guess that is also a match? Your last paragraph sounds like doing things compulsively, things that aren't important right now. That is also a no match for me. I get hyper focused from time to time, although that has gotten quit rare in recent years. But I've never not went to a meeting or something similar because of it. If I need to do something, if I start to feel negative about it, I'll get it done no matter what. I'd feel quite awkward not getting to meetings, so that doesn't happen. Maybe this is still a match? Edit: On the other hand, I should complete a Jira story right now. But now I'm here and listening to a ADD related talk from another comment. But I really should work on that story to finish it. But I kind of have an open deadline. But it gets steadily more embarrassing that I haven't finished it. Uh oh.

agumonkey 6y ago

Anybody feels that ADHD or similar issues are often a sign that you're not doing things that you need to to be happy ? Like running after something for the wrong reasons ? Kinda like Bukowski "don't try" ? ps: to explain more, there were times where a) I was slowly but surely inspired by a topic and would just keep wondering and thinking about it, 'hard' or not, it was similar to walking a mental park b) I was motivated by desires (greatness, potential financial gains, social status, some faith that the outcome would make me feel happy) but now my feelings about them have changed so it feels pointless. I feel a lot better when doing things that have no real goal but actually procure a lightweight joy. For instance, I used to equate more study to more possibilities and capacity to 1) create more (joy) 2) get a good job. But my experience was that these efforts weren't useful in reality. Even though I got some FP moocs, solved problems alone, I'm still stuck too often, and recruiters don't give a damn. It all erodes your happiness/ROI center.

internet_user 6y ago
Depression (and many other illnesses, autoimmune, hormonal deficiencies, sleep disorders, all kinds of dementia and other neurological illnesses) will produce a dysexecutive syndrome that's very similar, if not indisginuishable, from ADHD. In your specific case you may want to read up on something called "learned helplessness". Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely. That is different from ADHD. ADHD in itself is really a diagnosis of exclusion, where no clear cause can be found.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  > Essentially you are being conditioned by failure to quit prematurely. Funny how my conclusions today are the opposite. I didn't quit early enough somehow. Well it's hard to tell, tbh, I've spent years learning hard stuff without any real benefit. So many a different course of action would make sense :)
- eru 6y ago
  In practice, ADHD is what you have when stimulants make you get better. If your laundry lists of symptoms (depression, sleep disorders, lack of motivation etc) get better from stimulants, count yourself lucky. Stimulants work right away, if they work at all, and have few and relatively mild side-effects. Some of the side-effects, like weight loss, are even seen as welcome by many people. Others like having to pee more often and cold hands are relatively easy to deal with. For comparison, antidepressants take months to show even mild positive effects; and have major side-effects.

internet_user 6y ago

ADHD is best described as impaired self-directed behavior. The kernel of motivation may exist, but an ADHD victim would fail to follow through on that motivation, to their own detriment. Either due to lack of concentration, lack of planning, or lack of execution. Often all of the above. It is a general dysexecutive syndrome that that may impact all higher order cognitive functions. Motivation, on the other hand can also be impaired by depression (aka "learned helplessness" - which is not uncommon in ADHD), but that would not be ADHD in itself.