7 ms·

Why is it a good thing there is more non-white students? Why does it matter what ethnicity they are if they have the right grades to go there? I don't give a sh

Why is it a good thing there is more non-white students? Why does it matter what ethnicity they are if they have the right grades to go there? I don't give a shit about someone's sex or race when working with someone, nor do I go around a room counting how many white co-workers I have. I am baffled by it.

fakedang 6y ago
Tbh, diversity only seems to be a thing in America (and slowly creeping into the UK). I think it's partly more pronounced there because your race is significantly correlated to your income levels, which determine your ability to go to college. Meanwhile, most of Europe is homogenous largely, and thus insusceptible to any effects from diversity issues. Even in the UK, the most diverse European country, except for some Windrush immigrants, most immigrant groups such as the South Asians have largely been able to transcend the income divide between white and non-white.
- uk_programmer 6y ago
  In the UK there is a class divide (linked mostly to wealth but not entirely). Everyone that is naturalised or was born here is considered British no matter what their race is (the same applies to the French IIRC). Yes unfortunately people are bringing race into our politics which is a shame tbh because it is considered rude to mention someone's race in anything other than maybe describing their physical appearance (for the purposes of identification). If a student wants to go to University they are means tested which determines the amount of grants / loans they are entitled to. Race isn't a consideration only wealth (based on household income).
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    In France wealth is secondary to the place you live in and where you come from (in terms of divisions in the nation). Of course if you have French nationality your "race" does not matter (there are no programs for minorities) but the reality is, also of course, different. Looking at the last 40 years, I wrote say that Islamism has become the greatest divider (for 10 or 20 years now). This was a non-subject when I was a kid in the 80's.
    - uk_programmer 6y ago
      The same is true in the UK there is a North / South divide that is historical, economic and cultural.
clort 6y ago
It is a good thing because historically it has mattered what ethnicity people are. It still matters because there is a narrative pushed by some that we are a meritocracy but in fact social mobility is very low. This is not just about ethnicity, but ethnicity is definitely a part of poverty in the USA for instance, and ethnicity is visible.
- uk_programmer 6y ago
  It shouldn't matter what-so-ever what race someone is. It should be irrelevant. It shouldn't be a positive or negative thing. If social mobility is a problem then you means test the household based on wealth and give grants to those that satisfy the criteria.
  - mnm1 6y ago
    What should or shouldn't matter is irrelevant and pretending like it's relevant is naive. It does matter. That's a fact. You want to take your argument to 1850 and argue what should and shouldn't matter? We fought the bloodiest war in American history over this so you know what, it does fucking matter. And even in 2020, racism is still widespread, so you know what, it fucking matters. That's reality. It most certainly fucking matters that certain people were held back for hundreds of years through slavery and racism while whites progressed forward. It most certainly matters that this is still going on today. Look at the median household worth in the US to see how much it matters. This idea that you're putting forward, that history doesn't matter, that reality doesn't matter, is frankly absurd. It's not even an argument. It has no basis in reality. It's a fantasy. History matters and affects the present. It's as simple as that.
    - uk_programmer 6y ago
      > It's not even an argument. It has no basis in reality. It's a fantasy. History matters and affects the present. It's as simple as that. I was going to rebut most of your angry ramblings. Then I read this and I remembered why it pointless with talking to people like yourself. You think there cannot be any discussion on a topic outside of what you think it correct because you have decided that you have the correct opinion. I said "this shouldn't matter".

fakedang 6y ago

Tbh, diversity only seems to be a thing in America (and slowly creeping into the UK). I think it's partly more pronounced there because your race is significantly correlated to your income levels, which determine your ability to go to college. Meanwhile, most of Europe is homogenous largely, and thus insusceptible to any effects from diversity issues. Even in the UK, the most diverse European country, except for some Windrush immigrants, most immigrant groups such as the South Asians have largely been able to transcend the income divide between white and non-white.

uk_programmer 6y ago
In the UK there is a class divide (linked mostly to wealth but not entirely). Everyone that is naturalised or was born here is considered British no matter what their race is (the same applies to the French IIRC). Yes unfortunately people are bringing race into our politics which is a shame tbh because it is considered rude to mention someone's race in anything other than maybe describing their physical appearance (for the purposes of identification). If a student wants to go to University they are means tested which determines the amount of grants / loans they are entitled to. Race isn't a consideration only wealth (based on household income).
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  In France wealth is secondary to the place you live in and where you come from (in terms of divisions in the nation). Of course if you have French nationality your "race" does not matter (there are no programs for minorities) but the reality is, also of course, different. Looking at the last 40 years, I wrote say that Islamism has become the greatest divider (for 10 or 20 years now). This was a non-subject when I was a kid in the 80's.
  - uk_programmer 6y ago
    The same is true in the UK there is a North / South divide that is historical, economic and cultural.

clort 6y ago

It is a good thing because historically it has mattered what ethnicity people are. It still matters because there is a narrative pushed by some that we are a meritocracy but in fact social mobility is very low. This is not just about ethnicity, but ethnicity is definitely a part of poverty in the USA for instance, and ethnicity is visible.

uk_programmer 6y ago
It shouldn't matter what-so-ever what race someone is. It should be irrelevant. It shouldn't be a positive or negative thing. If social mobility is a problem then you means test the household based on wealth and give grants to those that satisfy the criteria.
- mnm1 6y ago
  What should or shouldn't matter is irrelevant and pretending like it's relevant is naive. It does matter. That's a fact. You want to take your argument to 1850 and argue what should and shouldn't matter? We fought the bloodiest war in American history over this so you know what, it does fucking matter. And even in 2020, racism is still widespread, so you know what, it fucking matters. That's reality. It most certainly fucking matters that certain people were held back for hundreds of years through slavery and racism while whites progressed forward. It most certainly matters that this is still going on today. Look at the median household worth in the US to see how much it matters. This idea that you're putting forward, that history doesn't matter, that reality doesn't matter, is frankly absurd. It's not even an argument. It has no basis in reality. It's a fantasy. History matters and affects the present. It's as simple as that.
  - uk_programmer 6y ago
    > It's not even an argument. It has no basis in reality. It's a fantasy. History matters and affects the present. It's as simple as that. I was going to rebut most of your angry ramblings. Then I read this and I remembered why it pointless with talking to people like yourself. You think there cannot be any discussion on a topic outside of what you think it correct because you have decided that you have the correct opinion. I said "this shouldn't matter".