6 ms·

I've really grown to dislike the "people who presumably consider themselves ethical defending a regime that represses free speech and expression, brutally crush

I've really grown to dislike the "people who presumably consider themselves ethical defending a regime that represses free speech and expression, brutally crushes dissenters, disappears ethical doctors, is led by a 'president for life' dictator, and has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing".

evidencebased 6y ago
"has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing" Citation needed on the '1M', 'organs...harvested', 'culture...erased'.
- zepto 6y ago
  First Page Of Google.
  - evidencebased 6y ago
    I don't believe everything I see on the first page of Google, and you shouldn't either.
    - zepto 6y ago
      You have been given the citations you asked for, but now you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss?
      - evidencebased 6y ago
        >You have been given the citations you asked for I disagree. I see a lot of speculation not actual proof. >you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss? How about proof to back up these claims? It's amazing how some people can be so invested in a story that they'll throw basic logical reasoning out the window.
- rsanek 6y ago
  Wikipedia references estimates of 1.5 million & 1-3 million. [0] "Uighurs are allegedly pressured to renounce their culture" [1] More references is the Wikipedia article as well. "China forcefully harvests organs from detainees" [2] Same article discusses the 1.5 million figure. All of these are from basic Google searches. The information is out there if you look. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [1] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/11/14/2003725807 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/11/14/20... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests...
  - evidencebased 6y ago
    Where the 1 million number came from: https://qz.com/1599393/how-researchers-estimate-1-million-uyghurs-are-detained-in-xinjiang/ https://qz.com/1599393/how-researchers-estimate-1-million-uy... https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/features/where-did-one-million-figure-detentions-xinjiangs-camps-come https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/features/where-d... https://www.nchrd.org/2018/08/china-massive-numbers-of-uyghurs-other-ethnic-minorities-forced-into-re-education-programs/ https://www.nchrd.org/2018/08/china-massive-numbers-of-uyghu... Note the sources: Radio Free Asia (CIA propaganda group), Adrian Zenz (religious nutjob), etc. Note the method: Estimates by satellite imagery and interviewing a handful of residents. All of these reports that are used as evidence of cultural genocide are hearsay. Uyghurs are taught to renounce extremist beliefs not their culture as a whole. Here is the actual report from the 'tribunal': https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTribunal_JUDGMENT_1stMarch_2020.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr... Note that their 'direct evidence' are also just hearsay. I see no concrete proof of organ harvesting from Uyghurs. Maybe you can find it.
AsyncAwait 6y ago
Maybe am just cynical, but the West has done all of the same things. Worse, every time someone in the developing world was trying to help their people, the U.S./UK swept in to overthrow them. So spare me. I do not like China's domestic policies, but I've came to see them as just another cynical player in "the game", trying to survive. Just another (yes, often evil), empire. The only way to progress is to stop building empires. But that goes for all the players, not just China.

evidencebased 6y ago

"has literally hauled off 1M muslims to internment campus where their organs are being harvested and their culture is being erased, thing" Citation needed on the '1M', 'organs...harvested', 'culture...erased'.

zepto 6y ago
First Page Of Google.
- evidencebased 6y ago
  I don't believe everything I see on the first page of Google, and you shouldn't either.
  - zepto 6y ago
    You have been given the citations you asked for, but now you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss?
    - evidencebased 6y ago
      >You have been given the citations you asked for I disagree. I see a lot of speculation not actual proof. >you want something specific but you haven’t said what. What are your criteria for something you wouldn’t just dismiss? How about proof to back up these claims? It's amazing how some people can be so invested in a story that they'll throw basic logical reasoning out the window.
rsanek 6y ago
Wikipedia references estimates of 1.5 million & 1-3 million. [0] "Uighurs are allegedly pressured to renounce their culture" [1] More references is the Wikipedia article as well. "China forcefully harvests organs from detainees" [2] Same article discusses the 1.5 million figure. All of these are from basic Google searches. The information is out there if you look. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [1] http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/11/14/2003725807 http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2019/11/14/20... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests...
- evidencebased 6y ago
  Where the 1 million number came from: https://qz.com/1599393/how-researchers-estimate-1-million-uyghurs-are-detained-in-xinjiang/ https://qz.com/1599393/how-researchers-estimate-1-million-uy... https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/features/where-did-one-million-figure-detentions-xinjiangs-camps-come https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/features/where-d... https://www.nchrd.org/2018/08/china-massive-numbers-of-uyghurs-other-ethnic-minorities-forced-into-re-education-programs/ https://www.nchrd.org/2018/08/china-massive-numbers-of-uyghu... Note the sources: Radio Free Asia (CIA propaganda group), Adrian Zenz (religious nutjob), etc. Note the method: Estimates by satellite imagery and interviewing a handful of residents. All of these reports that are used as evidence of cultural genocide are hearsay. Uyghurs are taught to renounce extremist beliefs not their culture as a whole. Here is the actual report from the 'tribunal': https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTribunal_JUDGMENT_1stMarch_2020.pdf https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr... Note that their 'direct evidence' are also just hearsay. I see no concrete proof of organ harvesting from Uyghurs. Maybe you can find it.

AsyncAwait 6y ago

Maybe am just cynical, but the West has done all of the same things. Worse, every time someone in the developing world was trying to help their people, the U.S./UK swept in to overthrow them. So spare me. I do not like China's domestic policies, but I've came to see them as just another cynical player in "the game", trying to survive. Just another (yes, often evil), empire. The only way to progress is to stop building empires. But that goes for all the players, not just China.