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Why I don't contribute to open-source projects: I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After al

by lotides 16y ago

Why I don't contribute to open-source projects: I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After all, I "just make things pretty", right? I hate politics. Many open-source projects are a power-struggle with entrenched developers guarding against change. Design is all about visual relationships. Making a change to one small aspect to the design effects everything else. This is very frustrating in an open-source environment, where parts of the design can be changed by the masses compromising the integrity of the whole. Our industry doesn't appreciate it. Employers don't care what open-source projects we've contributed to. It's all about paying clients.

benjash 16y ago
Also. In the UK at least, get designers get paid a lot less. The work they do get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Designers are generally driven by the desire to create and make 'pretty' things. Most spend all day in meetings discussing why that shade of pink isn't good for the 99th design iteration of the same icon. So I highly doubt they would rush to do this kind of work for free. Most design work open source projects need are quite 'boring' from some designers point of view.
- kstenerud 16y ago
  Counterpoint: Many open source contributors don't find satisfaction in their day jobs. The work they get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Developers are generally driven by the desire to create 'cool' things. Many spend all day in meetings discussing why that API extension isn't good for the 99th design iteration for customer X. And yet many rush to do this kind of work for free. Lots of work open source projects need are quite 'boring' from the technical point of view (documentation, project files, merging, OS integration. etc). So why do people contribute to open source projects? Because they believe in the product and like feeling empowered.
  - AaronChampagne 16y ago
    As a designer I like your counterpoint. If I could work with developers like you're describing I'd be interested. I'm nervous about offering help to a project though, because I'm getting the impression that developers are expected to navigate the community solo and I don't know if I can learn the ropes of the community while making a good design for a project. I've been thinking that maybe a buddy-system might be appropriate for attracting designers.
    - Dylanlacey 16y ago
      I think that's a brilliant idea. ABSOLUTELY brilliant. With a buddy, developers would be able to: A: Get some greater insight into the reasons workflow is performed like it is. B: Get some insulation from the "Here is the Github. Go, be fruitful" nature of a lot of projects. C: Have someone assist with VC. The developer would get: A: Exposure to ideas about design B: Experience in how to effectively communicate with developers C: Experience in HCI and usability You, sir, have given me an EXCELLENT IDEA. TO THE INTERWEBS!
Mz 16y ago
I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After all, I "just make things pretty", right? Thank you for giving me a jumping off point for one of the points I want to make (and please excuse the tirade, which has nothing to do with you). I have a certificate in GIS. We were taught that a good map will be visually appealing in a way that makes other people comment on that appeal but a pretty map isn't necessarily a good map. A good map is one that present information effectively and efficiently. Doing this well gives you an attractive piece of work in the way some well-engineered thing has a certain visual appeal. In places where the GIS is done as a separate thing and is not properly integrated, the GIS department becomes a "map shop" and they become all about making pretty maps. And it's broken. It's a sign that something is very wrong. Coders need to get over the idea that designers "just make things pretty". I saw an HGTV show where the stager talked about his goal of drawing people down the hall, past the icky kitchen and out to the amazing views of the main living area. That was the selling point but you had to get people to physically walk past and largely ignore less attractive features of the place. "First impressions" are big in real estate. So finding a means to get them to literally get past those items and get to the good thing was like making magic. Coders need to understand that design is like that -- or good design is, at least. It can be. And it can add real value. And what I am not seeing in this discussion is where those two pieces meet -- where do the coders communicate their vision or design needs to the designer? I am not seeing that at all. I think I have decent "taste" but I am not good at website design. I got free assistance from someone way more knowledgeable than I was. I got lots of free assistance for a time with every aspect of my websites from people who valued the content, never mind my many shortcomings. I had a falling out with the person who did the design work and we aren't friends anymore. I still give credit on my sites to their contribution. I try hard to thank anyone who has contributed. I understand the idealism behind open source. And some stuff wouldn't be created any other way. But the tendency for open source/all volunteer stuff to be tainted with so much bitterness is part of why I am on HN and trying to figure out how to monetize what I do. I will monetize it or go do something else. People have benefited enormously from my unique understanding of some niche topics. People with extremely difficult problems who, in many cases, have been failed by all the paid experts they ever turned to. I don't know yet how to monetize it. To me, that is important. Other people get other types of benefit out of participating in various sorts of "free"/all volunteer projects/settings. Figure out what will benefit the designers. And if you do nothing else, thank them and give them credit. That goes a long way with a lot of people. If you can't figure out anything else to do, do at least that much. Be gracious about it. Being a dick is a good way to make sure people who gave just don't come back. And if you can't do that because you have grown bitter yourself, get the hell out of FOSS and do something you feel is more gratifying/satisfying. I stopped doing some of the stuff I used to do because I was bitter and everyone around me was way more bitter than I was. Downright bitchy and hostile in many cases. And I don't want to live that way. If I can't give it freely, graciously, and with an open heart, then you don't need me pissing in your cheerios. You can just go to Walmart or something and buy some piece of shit without the poison pill to go with it. /soap box-rant-tirade thingy
tibbon 16y ago
I think you've hit the nail on the head with your final point. As programmers, you can point to your Github repo as your resume. In the design industry, they don't care about your Github repo (or will even understand it), and they'll bug you about some part of the program that you didn't even contribute to or were responsible for.
- lovskogen 16y ago
  Depends who you want to work with. 37signals keeps on emphasizing that they'll look up possible new hires. Having a repo on Github is all positive.
  - AaronChampagne 16y ago
    I've just heard about 37 signals this past month or two and am thinking about putting out a portfolio for them. Would they actually care about OS projects as a designer?
    - v21 16y ago
      They'd love you for it.
Natsu 16y ago
Sometimes, I think that the only way to integrate them into a FOSS project is to have one lead designer who has ownership over the design and to have the coders work with that.

by lotides 16y ago

benjash 16y ago

Also. In the UK at least, get designers get paid a lot less. The work they do get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Designers are generally driven by the desire to create and make 'pretty' things. Most spend all day in meetings discussing why that shade of pink isn't good for the 99th design iteration of the same icon. So I highly doubt they would rush to do this kind of work for free. Most design work open source projects need are quite 'boring' from some designers point of view.

kstenerud 16y ago
Counterpoint: Many open source contributors don't find satisfaction in their day jobs. The work they get paid to do is restrictive and dull. Developers are generally driven by the desire to create 'cool' things. Many spend all day in meetings discussing why that API extension isn't good for the 99th design iteration for customer X. And yet many rush to do this kind of work for free. Lots of work open source projects need are quite 'boring' from the technical point of view (documentation, project files, merging, OS integration. etc). So why do people contribute to open source projects? Because they believe in the product and like feeling empowered.
- AaronChampagne 16y ago
  As a designer I like your counterpoint. If I could work with developers like you're describing I'd be interested. I'm nervous about offering help to a project though, because I'm getting the impression that developers are expected to navigate the community solo and I don't know if I can learn the ropes of the community while making a good design for a project. I've been thinking that maybe a buddy-system might be appropriate for attracting designers.
  - Dylanlacey 16y ago
    I think that's a brilliant idea. ABSOLUTELY brilliant. With a buddy, developers would be able to: A: Get some greater insight into the reasons workflow is performed like it is. B: Get some insulation from the "Here is the Github. Go, be fruitful" nature of a lot of projects. C: Have someone assist with VC. The developer would get: A: Exposure to ideas about design B: Experience in how to effectively communicate with developers C: Experience in HCI and usability You, sir, have given me an EXCELLENT IDEA. TO THE INTERWEBS!

Mz 16y ago

I feel like a second-class citizen around developers. And I don't want to venture in to the lions den. After all, I "just make things pretty", right? Thank you for giving me a jumping off point for one of the points I want to make (and please excuse the tirade, which has nothing to do with you). I have a certificate in GIS. We were taught that a good map will be visually appealing in a way that makes other people comment on that appeal but a pretty map isn't necessarily a good map. A good map is one that present information effectively and efficiently. Doing this well gives you an attractive piece of work in the way some well-engineered thing has a certain visual appeal. In places where the GIS is done as a separate thing and is not properly integrated, the GIS department becomes a "map shop" and they become all about making pretty maps. And it's broken. It's a sign that something is very wrong. Coders need to get over the idea that designers "just make things pretty". I saw an HGTV show where the stager talked about his goal of drawing people down the hall, past the icky kitchen and out to the amazing views of the main living area. That was the selling point but you had to get people to physically walk past and largely ignore less attractive features of the place. "First impressions" are big in real estate. So finding a means to get them to literally get past those items and get to the good thing was like making magic. Coders need to understand that design is like that -- or good design is, at least. It can be. And it can add real value. And what I am not seeing in this discussion is where those two pieces meet -- where do the coders communicate their vision or design needs to the designer? I am not seeing that at all. I think I have decent "taste" but I am not good at website design. I got free assistance from someone way more knowledgeable than I was. I got lots of free assistance for a time with every aspect of my websites from people who valued the content, never mind my many shortcomings. I had a falling out with the person who did the design work and we aren't friends anymore. I still give credit on my sites to their contribution. I try hard to thank anyone who has contributed. I understand the idealism behind open source. And some stuff wouldn't be created any other way. But the tendency for open source/all volunteer stuff to be tainted with so much bitterness is part of why I am on HN and trying to figure out how to monetize what I do. I will monetize it or go do something else. People have benefited enormously from my unique understanding of some niche topics. People with extremely difficult problems who, in many cases, have been failed by all the paid experts they ever turned to. I don't know yet how to monetize it. To me, that is important. Other people get other types of benefit out of participating in various sorts of "free"/all volunteer projects/settings. Figure out what will benefit the designers. And if you do nothing else, thank them and give them credit. That goes a long way with a lot of people. If you can't figure out anything else to do, do at least that much. Be gracious about it. Being a dick is a good way to make sure people who gave just don't come back. And if you can't do that because you have grown bitter yourself, get the hell out of FOSS and do something you feel is more gratifying/satisfying. I stopped doing some of the stuff I used to do because I was bitter and everyone around me was way more bitter than I was. Downright bitchy and hostile in many cases. And I don't want to live that way. If I can't give it freely, graciously, and with an open heart, then you don't need me pissing in your cheerios. You can just go to Walmart or something and buy some piece of shit without the poison pill to go with it. /soap box-rant-tirade thingy

tibbon 16y ago

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your final point. As programmers, you can point to your Github repo as your resume. In the design industry, they don't care about your Github repo (or will even understand it), and they'll bug you about some part of the program that you didn't even contribute to or were responsible for.

lovskogen 16y ago
Depends who you want to work with. 37signals keeps on emphasizing that they'll look up possible new hires. Having a repo on Github is all positive.
- AaronChampagne 16y ago
  I've just heard about 37 signals this past month or two and am thinking about putting out a portfolio for them. Would they actually care about OS projects as a designer?
  - v21 16y ago
    They'd love you for it.

Natsu 16y ago

Sometimes, I think that the only way to integrate them into a FOSS project is to have one lead designer who has ownership over the design and to have the coders work with that.