6 ms·

Shit... I have a thing scheduled for early next month. Not a full on surgery but it is pretty invasive and urgent and they require me to be in the hospital for

Shit... I have a thing scheduled for early next month. Not a full on surgery but it is pretty invasive and urgent and they require me to be in the hospital for a few days. I'm not in New York but I am in hotbed for the current problem. Interventional Radiology is somewhat specialized so hopefully there aren't any interruptions. But they do have about 20 beds in their unit of the hospital.

jacquesm 7y ago
I'd not count on that going through.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  I don't think you can really know. This person needs to speak with their healthcare providers about timetables, possibly moving things up, etc. Some IR procedures are for seriously urgent issues, like cancer, and I don't think it's right to just toss out random assertions about what might happen in a ward we know nothing about.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Here is what is happening: non-emergency surgeries are cancelled all over the place right now to make room for more ICU capacity, to free up personnel and to ensure that those that are post-op and have their immune systems working overtime already are not exposed to one more very nasty virus. So right now the situation is already changing, and rapidly so. Looking two weeks ahead I'd say that the chances that any non-emergency surgeries will be cancelled are much higher than today. New York is but one example of the same pattern that you see happening over and over again and with an exponential spread (the early stages of any pandemic) two weeks is a very long time.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
      I'm aware that is happening. It seems like you are jumping from the fact that some non-urgent surgeries are being cancelled in some wards to an inference that this person's potentially more urgent surgery will be cancelled in the particular ward that was going to perform it. I don't think that's right. There is no need for you to speculate in any case when that person is just sharing their worries. There's no upside.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Again, two weeks is a long time. All of the non-emergency surgeries in my own circle have been called off already and so far this region is - for now - doing ok. A little bit further South (35 miles) the hospitals are on 'Code Red', which means that there is no ICU capacity available, 'Code Black' is when they will start triaging, which is probably a few days away. Because every operation has a chance of developing complications if there is no ICU capacity available the operations will be cancelled regardless of whether or not the operation itself is a risky one. Also, this being a forum and the person making their statement in this forum I feel that I'm totally free to speculate. Forum participation invites speculation, and in this case my speculation is backed up by local experience. If that is not the kind of message you want to be passed on then fine but that's your opinion, which in this case you are more than welcome to spout as long as you realize that you have just as much right to do so as I do. Oh, and in case you want a citation to go with this then maybe this will help you: https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1238817274590629888 https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1238817274590629888
        zozbot234 7y ago
        Canceling non-urgent surgeries also helps as the hospital can cannibalize ventilators and other life support equipment from the operating rooms and use it as makeshift ICU capacity.
        nate_meurer 7y ago
        Is the code red in place because ICUs are reserved, or are they already all in use?
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Almost all filled up, expected to fill up today or tomorrow. Dutch: https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3171310/Code-rood-in-de-Brabantse-ziekenhuizen-Jeroen-Bosch-trekt-alle-verloven-in https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3171310/Code-rood-in-de-...
      - xnyan 7y ago
    - fsckboy 7y ago
      elective surgeries are cancelled. he said his expected surgery is urgent. you inserted the word emergency. it's hard to follow an argument that proceeds this way.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Urgent is a term that is materially different from emergency in hospital parlance. I was laid up for a week with an 'urgent' surgery pending (twice!) because I kept being bumped by emergencies who needed it still much more than I did.
        fsckboy 7y ago
        yes, but I believe that, while urgent can get bumped by emergency, urgent is not covered by elective and urgent can proceed when elective is banned.
  - johnpowell 7y ago
    Yeah, it is for cancer. From what I gather they need to go in through a vein in my leg and go up into my liver to inject some chemo and a oil to try and kill/starve the tumor. This all seems like witchcraft. I have been dealing with this sorcery for years. I google nothing. I just do what I am told. It is much easier that way. The radiologist and oncologist have agreed that this is the best option. I trust them. And I will call Monday morning to see if they expect there to be a problem.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Best of luck man, that's super tough. Here's to hoping that they let you in, and that that chemo does its job well. That procedure is called embolization, if it works you're in and out on the same day. Hang in there.
rst 7y ago
Unfortunately, in Italy, space for other hospital departments has had to be converted to extra space for acute COVID-19 cases. (And they're still overflowing, to the point of doing battlefield triage to determine which severe but potentially viable patients get the ventilators.) It would be very unfortunate for that to also happen here, but unfortunately, Seattle at least seems to be trending that way.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  The USA is roughly 16 days behind Italy at the moment.
  - lumost 7y ago
    The USA is a much larger country with dramatically more hospital capacity. It's better to compare state by state numbers to Italy.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Italy actually has a pretty good healthcare system, especially in the North, better than in the States (unless you're rich). The bigger difference is that the Italian population skews older. And with the situation at US airports right now it looks like there is some bad news coming down in another two weeks or so.
    - remarkEon 7y ago
      Italy has more hospital beds per person than the US, 3.18 (2017) vs 2.77 (2016 ... no Wiki data for 2017). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hosp...
      - Laforet 7y ago
        It might be better to look at beds available near the major disease clusters rather than a country as a whole, given that patients are unlikely to be transported around the country to fill the beds.
WillPostForFood 7y ago
If it is urgent, you might reach out to them and see if it can be moved forward.
perlwle 7y ago
I live in China. I have read many horror stories out of Wuhan, China after the local hospital got overloaded with patient. 1. People got infected couldn't be treated and had to stay home. See this video that the daughter of a sick mom trying to get attention by drumming in the balcony and crying for help. "My mom is dying and I am helpless" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuvA0XooI5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuvA0XooI5c 2. people with long term illness or scheduled surgery couldn't be treated, such as leukemia patient need dialysis, because Major hospitals has directed all resources to treat coronavirus patients. Work from home, cancel meetings, stay away from the crowd. Wash hands, wear mask if you have to go out. Get medical advice from your doctors ASAP if you fall into the second category. Please get prepared for the worse and don't let this happen to you and your loved ones. EDITED: add a youtube video
- softwaredoug 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing your experience. My Mom is undergoing Chemotherapy, with a surgery scheduled in April. She has pancreatic cancer, which is a very tough cancer. They caught it early, and we were hopeful - until Covid 19. Now we have no idea how many delays, etc to expect. Best wishes to you from an American. We're in this together!

jacquesm 7y ago

I'd not count on that going through.

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
I don't think you can really know. This person needs to speak with their healthcare providers about timetables, possibly moving things up, etc. Some IR procedures are for seriously urgent issues, like cancer, and I don't think it's right to just toss out random assertions about what might happen in a ward we know nothing about.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Here is what is happening: non-emergency surgeries are cancelled all over the place right now to make room for more ICU capacity, to free up personnel and to ensure that those that are post-op and have their immune systems working overtime already are not exposed to one more very nasty virus. So right now the situation is already changing, and rapidly so. Looking two weeks ahead I'd say that the chances that any non-emergency surgeries will be cancelled are much higher than today. New York is but one example of the same pattern that you see happening over and over again and with an exponential spread (the early stages of any pandemic) two weeks is a very long time.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    I'm aware that is happening. It seems like you are jumping from the fact that some non-urgent surgeries are being cancelled in some wards to an inference that this person's potentially more urgent surgery will be cancelled in the particular ward that was going to perform it. I don't think that's right. There is no need for you to speculate in any case when that person is just sharing their worries. There's no upside.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Again, two weeks is a long time. All of the non-emergency surgeries in my own circle have been called off already and so far this region is - for now - doing ok. A little bit further South (35 miles) the hospitals are on 'Code Red', which means that there is no ICU capacity available, 'Code Black' is when they will start triaging, which is probably a few days away. Because every operation has a chance of developing complications if there is no ICU capacity available the operations will be cancelled regardless of whether or not the operation itself is a risky one. Also, this being a forum and the person making their statement in this forum I feel that I'm totally free to speculate. Forum participation invites speculation, and in this case my speculation is backed up by local experience. If that is not the kind of message you want to be passed on then fine but that's your opinion, which in this case you are more than welcome to spout as long as you realize that you have just as much right to do so as I do. Oh, and in case you want a citation to go with this then maybe this will help you: https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1238817274590629888 https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1238817274590629888
      - zozbot234 7y ago
        Canceling non-urgent surgeries also helps as the hospital can cannibalize ventilators and other life support equipment from the operating rooms and use it as makeshift ICU capacity.
      - nate_meurer 7y ago
        Is the code red in place because ICUs are reserved, or are they already all in use?
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Almost all filled up, expected to fill up today or tomorrow. Dutch: https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3171310/Code-rood-in-de-Brabantse-ziekenhuizen-Jeroen-Bosch-trekt-alle-verloven-in https://www.omroepbrabant.nl/nieuws/3171310/Code-rood-in-de-...
    - xnyan 7y ago
  - fsckboy 7y ago
    elective surgeries are cancelled. he said his expected surgery is urgent. you inserted the word emergency. it's hard to follow an argument that proceeds this way.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      Urgent is a term that is materially different from emergency in hospital parlance. I was laid up for a week with an 'urgent' surgery pending (twice!) because I kept being bumped by emergencies who needed it still much more than I did.
      - fsckboy 7y ago
        yes, but I believe that, while urgent can get bumped by emergency, urgent is not covered by elective and urgent can proceed when elective is banned.
- johnpowell 7y ago
  Yeah, it is for cancer. From what I gather they need to go in through a vein in my leg and go up into my liver to inject some chemo and a oil to try and kill/starve the tumor. This all seems like witchcraft. I have been dealing with this sorcery for years. I google nothing. I just do what I am told. It is much easier that way. The radiologist and oncologist have agreed that this is the best option. I trust them. And I will call Monday morning to see if they expect there to be a problem.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Best of luck man, that's super tough. Here's to hoping that they let you in, and that that chemo does its job well. That procedure is called embolization, if it works you're in and out on the same day. Hang in there.

rst 7y ago

Unfortunately, in Italy, space for other hospital departments has had to be converted to extra space for acute COVID-19 cases. (And they're still overflowing, to the point of doing battlefield triage to determine which severe but potentially viable patients get the ventilators.) It would be very unfortunate for that to also happen here, but unfortunately, Seattle at least seems to be trending that way.

jacquesm 7y ago
The USA is roughly 16 days behind Italy at the moment.
- lumost 7y ago
  The USA is a much larger country with dramatically more hospital capacity. It's better to compare state by state numbers to Italy.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Italy actually has a pretty good healthcare system, especially in the North, better than in the States (unless you're rich). The bigger difference is that the Italian population skews older. And with the situation at US airports right now it looks like there is some bad news coming down in another two weeks or so.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    Italy has more hospital beds per person than the US, 3.18 (2017) vs 2.77 (2016 ... no Wiki data for 2017). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hosp...
    - Laforet 7y ago
      It might be better to look at beds available near the major disease clusters rather than a country as a whole, given that patients are unlikely to be transported around the country to fill the beds.

WillPostForFood 7y ago

If it is urgent, you might reach out to them and see if it can be moved forward.

perlwle 7y ago

I live in China. I have read many horror stories out of Wuhan, China after the local hospital got overloaded with patient. 1. People got infected couldn't be treated and had to stay home. See this video that the daughter of a sick mom trying to get attention by drumming in the balcony and crying for help. "My mom is dying and I am helpless" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuvA0XooI5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuvA0XooI5c 2. people with long term illness or scheduled surgery couldn't be treated, such as leukemia patient need dialysis, because Major hospitals has directed all resources to treat coronavirus patients. Work from home, cancel meetings, stay away from the crowd. Wash hands, wear mask if you have to go out. Get medical advice from your doctors ASAP if you fall into the second category. Please get prepared for the worse and don't let this happen to you and your loved ones. EDITED: add a youtube video

softwaredoug 7y ago
Thanks for sharing your experience. My Mom is undergoing Chemotherapy, with a surgery scheduled in April. She has pancreatic cancer, which is a very tough cancer. They caught it early, and we were hopeful - until Covid 19. Now we have no idea how many delays, etc to expect. Best wishes to you from an American. We're in this together!