6 ms·

This reminds me of the time I spent at the NIH conducting research on cancer vaccines. After lots of trial and error, I had finally found something that seemed

This reminds me of the time I spent at the NIH conducting research on cancer vaccines. After lots of trial and error, I had finally found something that seemed to prevent lung cancer in mice. I rushed to show my PI the results. He listened intently and asked thoughtful questions. Once I finished, I asked if the findings would be worthy of submitting to Nature. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “I wouldn’t publish this anywhere, we still have work to do.” “What do you mean?” I asked. “If Nature published every article that purported to cure a human disease based on a mouse model, then I would be next in line for the Nobel Prize,” he replied. Harsh but true. The challenge of curing human disease cannot be replicated in animal models. At least not yet.

Amygaz 7y ago
I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19, and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait until it chronically costs a massive amount of money (add chronic deficit to the list).
- laanako08 7y ago
  It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabetes is a disease of poverty, not of character failure.
  - jfritsch1984 7y ago
    Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.
    - Arubis 7y ago
      When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.
      - jfritsch1984 7y ago
        If you are well informed you could just cook once a week and eat that. I do that on the weekend with my family of five and it's quite a nice ritual. We cook rice and potatoes, put beans and sauce on top. And then put it in 20 containers for the week. I can prepare these meals within 2 minutes with a microwave. Breakfast is basically the same every day: Oat meal with some fruits. In the evening we eat bread with spread (which we also make on the weekend). I would say we spend way less on food than your typical American. It's really THAT cheap. Also we have a lot of food for CoViD-19 as we store a lot of food in our cellar all year around (lentils, whole oats, canned beans, etc.). Ah, and we are not poor in any way. I'm among top 5% in Germany. I think it's just healthy and sustainable (for the same reason we don't own a car).
        flexblue 7y ago
        Without any further context, this is most likely not a healthy diet. You're certainly missing out on B vitamins and heme iron due to lack of meat and likely have a poor Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio due to the use of plant oils over other fats. Just a guess. You also probably get way too much sugar from sugary fruits which you overindulge in because your diet otherwise is so "healthy". Instead of soft drinks you have fruit juices, which have effectively the same amount of sugar. Again, just a guess. You probably got your nutrition advice from ideologically based publications, or you're just "winging it" based on what makes sense to you, in which case you're likely going to be wrong as well.
        jfritsch1984 7y ago
        I did my research. Also I tracked my nutrition with Cronometer in the first weeks. Not a single day did I miss on B-vitamins. Heme iron is associated with disease in all major studies. I don‘t see a reason to ingest it. I have a great O3/O6 ratio. I don‘t use oil at all and avoid foods that are filled with plant oils. My breakfast contains lots of flax seeds. Our usual foods contain hemp seeds. All good sources of O3. And all without pollutants from fish. I get a lot of information from nutritionfacts.org. Dr. Greger offers free information as in free beer. No ads, no sponsors, even the earnings from his books are given to charity. I highly recommend you check him out. He certainly has his biases but still way less than most other doctors.
  - bsanr2 7y ago
    There's a type of "virtue masturbation" that seems to follow discussion of diet-related illness. Thank you for pointing out that "diet," much as The Devil Wears Prada explained in regard to fashion, is something that all participate in, but that is ultimately chosen for you. There is also a large hereditary component to T2D. My father was a naval officer who was subject to annual physicals, who grew up in a middle class household, and who was on the way to holding multiple advanced degrees when he was diagnosed with T2D in his late 30s. Lifestyle barely factored in. If I had to guess, silent sleep issues might have been the most major factor.
- fred256 7y ago
  > I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. A well known joke in the diabetes community: the soonest way to find a cure for diabetes is to figure out how to turn humans into mice.
- root_axis 7y ago
  > 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions Do you have a source for that claim? My understanding is that genetics is the primary risk factor for diabetes.
  - jfritsch1984 7y ago
    Check Adventist health study 2. Vegans for example had 60-70% less diabetes. Guess they had the same genes before choosing that diet.
bitwize 7y ago
There was an "...In Mice" meme about this very topic that was even featured here on Hackernews.

Amygaz 7y ago

I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19, and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait until it chronically costs a massive amount of money (add chronic deficit to the list).

laanako08 7y ago
It's worth noting that "lifestyle" decisions, are mostly not decisions. They're based on the systemic implications of a person's class, wealth, and status. If a person has more time, and money, and is of a high-enough class, they will be better educated on self-care and health, will have the time to devote to continually ensuring good health, and will have the money to afford high-quality food and activities. Diabetes is a disease of poverty, not of character failure.
- jfritsch1984 7y ago
  Healthy food is typically less expensive than junk food. The problem is education and motivation. I think diabetes is more a disease of affluence. When you can buy twinkies and pork chops you're not actually poor. When you are really poor you eat rice and beans and some vegetables you grow for yourself. And then you don't have diabetes typically. Disclaimer: Not every T2D is purely from a bad diet. But many are.
  - Arubis 7y ago
    When you’re sufficiently poor and live in a society that insists that you work to qualify for benefits, you absolutely do not have time to cook healthy meals. Prepared, junky food is a staple.
    - jfritsch1984 7y ago
      If you are well informed you could just cook once a week and eat that. I do that on the weekend with my family of five and it's quite a nice ritual. We cook rice and potatoes, put beans and sauce on top. And then put it in 20 containers for the week. I can prepare these meals within 2 minutes with a microwave. Breakfast is basically the same every day: Oat meal with some fruits. In the evening we eat bread with spread (which we also make on the weekend). I would say we spend way less on food than your typical American. It's really THAT cheap. Also we have a lot of food for CoViD-19 as we store a lot of food in our cellar all year around (lentils, whole oats, canned beans, etc.). Ah, and we are not poor in any way. I'm among top 5% in Germany. I think it's just healthy and sustainable (for the same reason we don't own a car).
      - flexblue 7y ago
        Without any further context, this is most likely not a healthy diet. You're certainly missing out on B vitamins and heme iron due to lack of meat and likely have a poor Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio due to the use of plant oils over other fats. Just a guess. You also probably get way too much sugar from sugary fruits which you overindulge in because your diet otherwise is so "healthy". Instead of soft drinks you have fruit juices, which have effectively the same amount of sugar. Again, just a guess. You probably got your nutrition advice from ideologically based publications, or you're just "winging it" based on what makes sense to you, in which case you're likely going to be wrong as well.
        jfritsch1984 7y ago
        I did my research. Also I tracked my nutrition with Cronometer in the first weeks. Not a single day did I miss on B-vitamins. Heme iron is associated with disease in all major studies. I don‘t see a reason to ingest it. I have a great O3/O6 ratio. I don‘t use oil at all and avoid foods that are filled with plant oils. My breakfast contains lots of flax seeds. Our usual foods contain hemp seeds. All good sources of O3. And all without pollutants from fish. I get a lot of information from nutritionfacts.org. Dr. Greger offers free information as in free beer. No ads, no sponsors, even the earnings from his books are given to charity. I highly recommend you check him out. He certainly has his biases but still way less than most other doctors.
- bsanr2 7y ago
  There's a type of "virtue masturbation" that seems to follow discussion of diet-related illness. Thank you for pointing out that "diet," much as The Devil Wears Prada explained in regard to fashion, is something that all participate in, but that is ultimately chosen for you. There is also a large hereditary component to T2D. My father was a naval officer who was subject to annual physicals, who grew up in a middle class household, and who was on the way to holding multiple advanced degrees when he was diagnosed with T2D in his late 30s. Lifestyle barely factored in. If I had to guess, silent sleep issues might have been the most major factor.
fred256 7y ago
> I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. A well known joke in the diabetes community: the soonest way to find a cure for diabetes is to figure out how to turn humans into mice.
root_axis 7y ago
> 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions Do you have a source for that claim? My understanding is that genetics is the primary risk factor for diabetes.
- jfritsch1984 7y ago
  Check Adventist health study 2. Vegans for example had 60-70% less diabetes. Guess they had the same genes before choosing that diet.

bitwize 7y ago

There was an "...In Mice" meme about this very topic that was even featured here on Hackernews.