5 ms·

I see: you’re concerned with a future where the concept of an internet ceases to exist? I’m afraid money will be the least of our problems then.

gchokov 7y ago
It's already happening with Russia and China having their own networks.
- unhashable 7y ago
  Absolute financial control of citizens is a hell on earth type of dystopia we must resist, thwart, and avoid at all costs. We must not go silently into that dark night.
glofish 7y ago
for me, it not so unthinkable that you could have intermittent access to the internet (out days at a time), or that some parts of the internet would not be accessible for extended periods of time for you it seems that must equate the end of the world where it doesn't matter anyway.
- unhashable 7y ago
  This is an interesting scenario worth thinking through. If Bitcoin is forced to go split-brain temporarily, the network could coordinate to rejoin after the fact. Or, it could stay split in two. Regardless, infighting over which network was “the real Bitcoin” would ensue. See Bitcoin Cash and friends.
  - sparkie 7y ago
    A "rejoin" isn't really possible. People who spent money on the "wrong" chain will simply have to live with the fact that their money is lost on the "right" chain, although it will probably not be an overnight thing. The two forks could exist for a long time after the split simultaneously, and many merchants may accept either form of payment. There will even be arbitrage between the two chains as profit can be made. Ultimately, one chain will come to dominate the other, and the ones who fight hardest for it to be their chain will probably find they're on the wrong one. That's because people on the right chain will not need to fight about it. They'll just be running their software as they've been doing till now, and it will pick the correct chain for them. The ones screaming "you need to download a new client" will proceed in destroying their own reputations.
    - unhashable 7y ago
      So which is more likely: severe debasement of USD or the devolving of the global internet (ala an increase of firewall-ism by nation states)?
      - gerikson 7y ago
        In my opinion: the latter.
        unhashable 7y ago
        You think the internet is going to be compartmentalized before USD is devalued? Fed is printing $4T this week!
        unhashable 7y ago
        Update: Fed just committed to unlimited liquidity injections through money creation. USD debasement is now a guarantee. Welcome to the new normal. https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1238463895095869440?s=21 https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1238463895095869440?s=...
      - sparkie 7y ago
        The devolving of the internet to national intranets is likely, but I don't think it can be done to a big enough extent that it stops Bitcoin. It only takes information to leak through the firewall at one point of entry to make the firewall completely useless. Bitcoin transactions and blocks can be transmitted globally via sat, long and short distance radio, telephone, or the internet, bypassing the firewall through steganography and such. It seems like a futile task for states to attempt to filter it. The Bitcoin protocol will likely be available over encrypted and authenticated transport channels too, meaning that the nation state isn't going to be able to stop it without completely banning encrypted communication for which it has no back door. That may be attempted, but then no technology company is going to start a business in the locations where this happens. The nations which attempt this will probably do more damage to their economies by enacting it than any damage that Bitcoin could possibly do. It will only take a couple of nations to declare themselves open for bitcoin business, to have economic success, for the rest of the world to realize that fighting against Bitcoin is a losing game. Debasement of the USD will probably happen, but who knows when. My guess is it that it won't be a sudden event but will happen gradually over a few decades. You might measure USD to lose half of its value over a decade, but if you attempt to do the same for bitcoin, you might find that it has barely changed because "inflation" in bitcoin is negligible - ~7/8 of the total bitcoin supply has already been released, and the amount of "inflation" is decreasing over time.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
freeopinion 7y ago
Money was definitely not the least of the problems in Puerto Rico when the grid went down.

gchokov 7y ago

It's already happening with Russia and China having their own networks.

unhashable 7y ago
Absolute financial control of citizens is a hell on earth type of dystopia we must resist, thwart, and avoid at all costs. We must not go silently into that dark night.

glofish 7y ago

for me, it not so unthinkable that you could have intermittent access to the internet (out days at a time), or that some parts of the internet would not be accessible for extended periods of time for you it seems that must equate the end of the world where it doesn't matter anyway.

unhashable 7y ago
This is an interesting scenario worth thinking through. If Bitcoin is forced to go split-brain temporarily, the network could coordinate to rejoin after the fact. Or, it could stay split in two. Regardless, infighting over which network was “the real Bitcoin” would ensue. See Bitcoin Cash and friends.
- sparkie 7y ago
  A "rejoin" isn't really possible. People who spent money on the "wrong" chain will simply have to live with the fact that their money is lost on the "right" chain, although it will probably not be an overnight thing. The two forks could exist for a long time after the split simultaneously, and many merchants may accept either form of payment. There will even be arbitrage between the two chains as profit can be made. Ultimately, one chain will come to dominate the other, and the ones who fight hardest for it to be their chain will probably find they're on the wrong one. That's because people on the right chain will not need to fight about it. They'll just be running their software as they've been doing till now, and it will pick the correct chain for them. The ones screaming "you need to download a new client" will proceed in destroying their own reputations.
  - unhashable 7y ago
    So which is more likely: severe debasement of USD or the devolving of the global internet (ala an increase of firewall-ism by nation states)?
    - gerikson 7y ago
      In my opinion: the latter.
      - unhashable 7y ago
        You think the internet is going to be compartmentalized before USD is devalued? Fed is printing $4T this week!
        unhashable 7y ago
        Update: Fed just committed to unlimited liquidity injections through money creation. USD debasement is now a guarantee. Welcome to the new normal. https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1238463895095869440?s=21 https://twitter.com/apompliano/status/1238463895095869440?s=...
    - sparkie 7y ago
      The devolving of the internet to national intranets is likely, but I don't think it can be done to a big enough extent that it stops Bitcoin. It only takes information to leak through the firewall at one point of entry to make the firewall completely useless. Bitcoin transactions and blocks can be transmitted globally via sat, long and short distance radio, telephone, or the internet, bypassing the firewall through steganography and such. It seems like a futile task for states to attempt to filter it. The Bitcoin protocol will likely be available over encrypted and authenticated transport channels too, meaning that the nation state isn't going to be able to stop it without completely banning encrypted communication for which it has no back door. That may be attempted, but then no technology company is going to start a business in the locations where this happens. The nations which attempt this will probably do more damage to their economies by enacting it than any damage that Bitcoin could possibly do. It will only take a couple of nations to declare themselves open for bitcoin business, to have economic success, for the rest of the world to realize that fighting against Bitcoin is a losing game. Debasement of the USD will probably happen, but who knows when. My guess is it that it won't be a sudden event but will happen gradually over a few decades. You might measure USD to lose half of its value over a decade, but if you attempt to do the same for bitcoin, you might find that it has barely changed because "inflation" in bitcoin is negligible - ~7/8 of the total bitcoin supply has already been released, and the amount of "inflation" is decreasing over time.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

freeopinion 7y ago

Money was definitely not the least of the problems in Puerto Rico when the grid went down.