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To address your point more directly: many think that Bitcoin isn’t tangible because you have to trust that the network of full nodes are verifying transactions,

To address your point more directly: many think that Bitcoin isn’t tangible because you have to trust that the network of full nodes are verifying transactions, and if they stop then Bitcoin ceases to exist. Full nodes have financial incentives to run and they do so today at a scale that rivals the internet. It’s not a favor to Bitcoin, it’s a business. They would only stop if the financial incentive ceased to exist. I can’t think of a reason node operators would cease to care about their own financial well-being. That’s baked into our species. Note that your reservations apply equally (and potentially more so) to fiat. USD is a virtual currency. Cash is on the way out. You will not be able to spend your USD offline. USD is based on a network of centralized banks. You cannot spend your fiat without a computer asking permission from these centralized systems. The world stops if the internet stops. That’s not a Bitcoin problem. Bitcoin actually improves on the state of things by replacing encumbant authorities and centralized computing systems with math and a decentralized network. I’ll add this. It’s not the current state of the world, but there is a very real chance Bitcoin can be made available off-internet via a satellite network. This would prevent state-level censorship like what we see when authoritarian regimes cut the internet. https://github.com/Blockstream/satellite/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/Blockstream/satellite/blob/master/README....

weego 7y ago
When you think about it, you realize: USD is also virtual currency. Cash is on the way out. You will not be able to spend your USD offline. I mean by that definition anything past barter economies are virtual, so sure if that's your definition then your statement stands. It's completely incorrect by any meaningful definition of virtual though.
- unhashable 7y ago
  Are you actually taking issue with the fundamentals of my argument or just annoyed by my equating USD to a virtual currency?
dragonwriter 7y ago
> You will not be able to spend your USD offline. USD is based on a network of centralized banks. You cannot spend your fiat without a computer asking permission from these centralized systems. Yes, I can, as long as I have it as physical currency, and regularly do. Admittedly, this relies on confidence of all participants that eventually systems (banking, etc.) which are as you describe will work or be replaced/retooled without he online dependency (and there is plenty of historical precedent of systems working with fiat without digital backup which could be reverted to in extreme need), but there is no real-time dependency on online systems for use of physical currency, and as long as systems are up and working it's easy for fiat users to adjust their risk profile regarding potential future system failures by moving funds into or out of physical currency.
- unhashable 7y ago
  Physical cash is not long for this world. We are rapidly moving towards always-online and fully-digital ledgers controlled by governments and central banks. You will not be able to get a hair cut unless you are an outstanding citizen and have your governments blessing. I wish this were a joke.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Physical cash is not long for this world. Maybe, especially in some places, but even if that is the direction of digital financial transformation, the US is decades behind on most levels of that transformation and has cultural issues that that even if it was caught up on other aspects would make retirement of physical currency harder than it might be in other places.
    - unhashable 7y ago
      This is wishful thinking. I will be surprised if central banks don’t use the ushering in of the next monetary system as an excuse to go full-stop 100% digital. I get the sense you think this is a far off and unlikely event. I think it’s much more likely and impending than that.
- 7y ago

weego 7y ago

When you think about it, you realize: USD is also virtual currency. Cash is on the way out. You will not be able to spend your USD offline. I mean by that definition anything past barter economies are virtual, so sure if that's your definition then your statement stands. It's completely incorrect by any meaningful definition of virtual though.

unhashable 7y ago
Are you actually taking issue with the fundamentals of my argument or just annoyed by my equating USD to a virtual currency?

dragonwriter 7y ago

> You will not be able to spend your USD offline. USD is based on a network of centralized banks. You cannot spend your fiat without a computer asking permission from these centralized systems. Yes, I can, as long as I have it as physical currency, and regularly do. Admittedly, this relies on confidence of all participants that eventually systems (banking, etc.) which are as you describe will work or be replaced/retooled without he online dependency (and there is plenty of historical precedent of systems working with fiat without digital backup which could be reverted to in extreme need), but there is no real-time dependency on online systems for use of physical currency, and as long as systems are up and working it's easy for fiat users to adjust their risk profile regarding potential future system failures by moving funds into or out of physical currency.

unhashable 7y ago
Physical cash is not long for this world. We are rapidly moving towards always-online and fully-digital ledgers controlled by governments and central banks. You will not be able to get a hair cut unless you are an outstanding citizen and have your governments blessing. I wish this were a joke.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Physical cash is not long for this world. Maybe, especially in some places, but even if that is the direction of digital financial transformation, the US is decades behind on most levels of that transformation and has cultural issues that that even if it was caught up on other aspects would make retirement of physical currency harder than it might be in other places.
  - unhashable 7y ago
    This is wishful thinking. I will be surprised if central banks don’t use the ushering in of the next monetary system as an excuse to go full-stop 100% digital. I get the sense you think this is a far off and unlikely event. I think it’s much more likely and impending than that.
7y ago