4 ms·

eh, it seems like the obvious solution to these problems is to provision some public bathrooms, you know, Netherlands-style.

by lsc 7y ago

NicolasGorden 7y ago
I like that and I'd probably support some version of such a plan. But there are issues, especially where I live. Population density is quite thin out here in the desert. Also, since we don't offer a social net like in Holland, you'd need to police it against people literally sleeping in them or simply destroying them. Not to mention using them for nefarious activities. I'm not being alarmist, just saying there's a real cost to dealing with such aspects when people are spread out as thin as they are here. Maybe once we know what the cost is we'd find that the funds would be better spent setting up more shelters WITH bathrooms? Not saying this is the case. But that's exactly my original point: all these solutions are nuanced and need to be seen for what they are; addressing deep rooted social issues, with no solution being perfect and tons of choices that need to be made. Even if someone knew the perfect solution, finding how to bring it about is what matters. And that's bound to be imperfect, since that is what we live in.
- zapita 7y ago
  > Also, since we don't offer a social net like in Holland, you'd need to police it against people literally sleeping in them or simply destroying them Or provide a social net?
- lsc 7y ago
  do you have a lot of homelessness in the thinly-populated desert?
- ac29 7y ago
  The cost is about $300k/toilet: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/02/03/city-leaders-public-bathroom-cesar-chavez-park/ https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/02/03/city-leaders-publ...
vanniv 7y ago
It only takes one homeless person to ruin any amount of publicly-available space or service.
- lsc 7y ago
  I... don't believe that? I mean, I've used public bathrooms... and I've used tech worker bathrooms. Yes, maintenance is required. that's part of provisioning a restroom. I... do not believe that the homeless are significantly worse than the techworkers (once you factor in just how often the techworker bathrooms are cleaned, I think we might be the bigger problem here?) I mean, certainly cleaning is the major cost of provisioning a public bathroom, and that needs to be carefully considered during the design of such things. but I don't think that makes public restrooms impossible, just more expensive.

eh, it seems like the obvious solution to these problems is to provision some public bathrooms, you know, Netherlands-style.

by lsc 7y ago

eh, it seems like the obvious solution to these problems is to provision some public bathrooms, you know, Netherlands-style.

NicolasGorden 7y ago

I like that and I'd probably support some version of such a plan. But there are issues, especially where I live. Population density is quite thin out here in the desert. Also, since we don't offer a social net like in Holland, you'd need to police it against people literally sleeping in them or simply destroying them. Not to mention using them for nefarious activities. I'm not being alarmist, just saying there's a real cost to dealing with such aspects when people are spread out as thin as they are here. Maybe once we know what the cost is we'd find that the funds would be better spent setting up more shelters WITH bathrooms? Not saying this is the case. But that's exactly my original point: all these solutions are nuanced and need to be seen for what they are; addressing deep rooted social issues, with no solution being perfect and tons of choices that need to be made. Even if someone knew the perfect solution, finding how to bring it about is what matters. And that's bound to be imperfect, since that is what we live in.

zapita 7y ago
> Also, since we don't offer a social net like in Holland, you'd need to police it against people literally sleeping in them or simply destroying them Or provide a social net?
lsc 7y ago
do you have a lot of homelessness in the thinly-populated desert?
ac29 7y ago
The cost is about $300k/toilet: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/02/03/city-leaders-public-bathroom-cesar-chavez-park/ https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/02/03/city-leaders-publ...

vanniv 7y ago

It only takes one homeless person to ruin any amount of publicly-available space or service.

lsc 7y ago
I... don't believe that? I mean, I've used public bathrooms... and I've used tech worker bathrooms. Yes, maintenance is required. that's part of provisioning a restroom. I... do not believe that the homeless are significantly worse than the techworkers (once you factor in just how often the techworker bathrooms are cleaned, I think we might be the bigger problem here?) I mean, certainly cleaning is the major cost of provisioning a public bathroom, and that needs to be carefully considered during the design of such things. but I don't think that makes public restrooms impossible, just more expensive.