8 ms·

I'm happy to see that, while he did something wrong, because he was honest and openly remorseful throughout, he ended up not going to prison. The cops even seem

by jcw 16y ago

I'm happy to see that, while he did something wrong, because he was honest and openly remorseful throughout, he ended up not going to prison. The cops even seemed cordial, they let him get breakfast and a smoke. I wonder how differently things would have played out if he lived in the US.

podperson 16y ago
I think the German police clearly thought he was not going to get justice from the US (hence the remarks about how lucky he was that they got him before he got on the plane) and saved him from falling into the FBI's trap.
- atourgates 16y ago
  Considering the rash of "OMG the police barged into my house, shot my goldfish and raped my star wars collection" type stories I've been hearing, is it safe to assume that the German police are quite a bit more sensible than their American counterparts? The whole experience sounds rather civilized. The police let Gembe get dressed, eat breakfast and smoke a cigarette before bringing him down to the station. And when he confessed, his punishment was 2 years in probation. I somehow doubt his experience with the FBI would have been similar.
  - thomasz 16y ago
    > is it safe to assume that the German police are quite a bit more sensible than their American counterparts? It depends. Gun ownership isn't nearly as common in the US, so they can safely assume that a 17 year old blackhat won't pull a gun on them. On the other hand, I've seen a ~4.9 feet tall girl getting knocked unconsciously with a Mp5 during the eviction of a squat. In 2003, a schizophrenic in custody was beaten to death by officers in Cologne. They were sentenced from 12 to 18 months in probation. In 2005, Oury Jalloh burned to death in a holding cell in Dessau while being tied with handcuffs to a fire-proof mattress at his hands and feet. In 2008, Josef Hoss was beaten to a bloody pulp by a special unit after his arrest. He is irreparably crippled. He later recieved 30,000€ for compensation.
    - burgerbrain 16y ago
      The difference between Germany and the US? Those types incidents are uncommon enough that you can remember individual occurrences.
      - ars 16y ago
        Oh come on, they are quite rare in the US as well, and the US is a LOT larger than Germany.
        psykotic 16y ago
        > Oh come on, they are quite rare in the US as well, and the US is a LOT larger than Germany. Yes, if "a LOT larger" means 3.5x larger. Germany has 82 million inhabitants and is the most populous country in Europe.
        true_religion 16y ago
        A lot larger as in landmass. People pay attention to what goes on in their geographic area, regardless of its population. For example, a beating in California isn't going to be as troubling to a resident in Vermont. They'll simply say "different state, different police force". On the other hand, a beating in Berlin is going to trouble someone in any part of Germany.
        noibl 16y ago
        Believe it or not, Germany is also a federal republic with distinct regional differences. Germany doesn't even have federal policing.
        brazzy 16y ago
        Not true: the former border police (Bundesgrenzschutz, parent organization to the famous GSG 9) has been officially the Bundespolizeit (federal police) since 2005, and there has always (well, since the 1951) been a federal investigation agency (Bundeskriminalamt). Most claims of police violence are actually against the Bereitschaftspolizei (riot police units, exist both at state and federal level), which is not surprising since they are deployed (and trained) mainly for potentially violent situations.
  - die_sekte 16y ago
    Germany neither has a War on Drugs nor a meth problem. There have been highly criticized raids in Germany, but there are fewer raids per capita in Germany, and in Germany police-citizen interaction is less violent (no automatic assumption that that driver that was just pulled over is armed, for example).
    - burgerbrain 16y ago
      "War on Drugs nor a meth problem" You say that as if the first does not cause the second. America's 'war on drugs' is the cause of the problems, not an excuse.
- billmcneale 16y ago
  Please. Do we need any more anti-US rhetoric here? I see no reason to believe that he would have been treated differently by the FBI, and besides, he would probably have been extradited right back to Germany.
  - danssig 16y ago
    You don't appear to be aware of what's going on in the US right now. I would also suggest reading what pg has to say about identity (and keeping it small).
    - borism 16y ago
      link?
      - GFischer 16y ago
        http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html About considering you part of something: "..There is a step beyond thinking of yourself as x but tolerating y: not even to consider yourself an x. The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you."
ryandvm 16y ago
No kidding. I would love to hear Gabe Newell's take on this article. That kid was a hairbreadth away from spending half a decade in a federal pen. That had to be a hell of a "whew" moment he had in that police station.
- deleted 16y ago
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  - deleted 16y ago
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Semiapies 16y ago
The cops were "cordial" after rousting him out of bed while pointing automatic weapons at him. In other words, they armed up and stormed the residence of a suspect of a non-violent crime. That sounds pretty standard for the US, and for the same reason indicated by the instruction, "Get out of bed. Do not touch the keyboard". SWAT-style tactics are rarely about any actual belief that the suspect has weapons and is likely to resist arrest, but about violently (sometimes lethally) subduing a suspect who might destroy evidence and impair the prosecution's case. And, of course, the overtime pay for SWAT work in many US jurisdictions. Don't know how that works in Germany.
- basugasubaku 16y ago
  On the reddit thread, the guy says that was inaccurate and they were actually "really nice" in waking him up. http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fpkav/the_boy_who_stole_halflife_2_fascinating_article/c1hp9ov http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fpkav/the_boy_who_st...
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    Hmm! I wonder what that's about. Thanks for the information.
ars 16y ago
Things would have been exactly the same in the US. The stories that get all the publicity are the bad ones which of course leads you to think that's all there is. But by far most cases end up exactly like this one. Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. If you are honest and open with them you get a far milder punishment than someone who won't talk. I've seen it in so many case reports. Judges are trying to figure out what kind of person you are. If you are open and honest they figure you made a mistake, but are basically a good person and thus don't need much punishment. On the other hand someone who won't talk is assumed to have a more negative mindset. I don't mean to suggest that not talking is taken as evidence for guilt - guilt is established separately and is not based on your cooperation. But the punishment for that guilt varies depending on your behavior in court and to the cops. A lot of the advice on the internet about not talking to cops etc is aimed at avoiding guilt. And it may work. But it utterly ignores the second half, which to me seems almost as important, and that is punishment.
- jessedhillon 16y ago
  > Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. Traffic tickets are not even in the same league as the kind of offenses that we're talking about here, but if they are any indication then I have to agree. I've gotten out of my last three traffic stops by simply telling the cop exactly what I did: driving in the HOV lane without a passenger, rolling through a stop sign, and doing 40 in a 25. These people -- law enforcement and the court -- get jerked around all day by people who insult their intelligence with bullshit stories. It must be refreshing to hear someone clearly admit what they did with no attempt to evade responsibility.
  - Tomis 16y ago
    Now you've ruined it.

by jcw 16y ago

podperson 16y ago

I think the German police clearly thought he was not going to get justice from the US (hence the remarks about how lucky he was that they got him before he got on the plane) and saved him from falling into the FBI's trap.

atourgates 16y ago
Considering the rash of "OMG the police barged into my house, shot my goldfish and raped my star wars collection" type stories I've been hearing, is it safe to assume that the German police are quite a bit more sensible than their American counterparts? The whole experience sounds rather civilized. The police let Gembe get dressed, eat breakfast and smoke a cigarette before bringing him down to the station. And when he confessed, his punishment was 2 years in probation. I somehow doubt his experience with the FBI would have been similar.
- thomasz 16y ago
  > is it safe to assume that the German police are quite a bit more sensible than their American counterparts? It depends. Gun ownership isn't nearly as common in the US, so they can safely assume that a 17 year old blackhat won't pull a gun on them. On the other hand, I've seen a ~4.9 feet tall girl getting knocked unconsciously with a Mp5 during the eviction of a squat. In 2003, a schizophrenic in custody was beaten to death by officers in Cologne. They were sentenced from 12 to 18 months in probation. In 2005, Oury Jalloh burned to death in a holding cell in Dessau while being tied with handcuffs to a fire-proof mattress at his hands and feet. In 2008, Josef Hoss was beaten to a bloody pulp by a special unit after his arrest. He is irreparably crippled. He later recieved 30,000€ for compensation.
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    The difference between Germany and the US? Those types incidents are uncommon enough that you can remember individual occurrences.
    - ars 16y ago
      Oh come on, they are quite rare in the US as well, and the US is a LOT larger than Germany.
      - psykotic 16y ago
        > Oh come on, they are quite rare in the US as well, and the US is a LOT larger than Germany. Yes, if "a LOT larger" means 3.5x larger. Germany has 82 million inhabitants and is the most populous country in Europe.
        true_religion 16y ago
        A lot larger as in landmass. People pay attention to what goes on in their geographic area, regardless of its population. For example, a beating in California isn't going to be as troubling to a resident in Vermont. They'll simply say "different state, different police force". On the other hand, a beating in Berlin is going to trouble someone in any part of Germany.
        noibl 16y ago
        Believe it or not, Germany is also a federal republic with distinct regional differences. Germany doesn't even have federal policing.
        brazzy 16y ago
        Not true: the former border police (Bundesgrenzschutz, parent organization to the famous GSG 9) has been officially the Bundespolizeit (federal police) since 2005, and there has always (well, since the 1951) been a federal investigation agency (Bundeskriminalamt). Most claims of police violence are actually against the Bereitschaftspolizei (riot police units, exist both at state and federal level), which is not surprising since they are deployed (and trained) mainly for potentially violent situations.
- die_sekte 16y ago
  Germany neither has a War on Drugs nor a meth problem. There have been highly criticized raids in Germany, but there are fewer raids per capita in Germany, and in Germany police-citizen interaction is less violent (no automatic assumption that that driver that was just pulled over is armed, for example).
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    "War on Drugs nor a meth problem" You say that as if the first does not cause the second. America's 'war on drugs' is the cause of the problems, not an excuse.
billmcneale 16y ago
Please. Do we need any more anti-US rhetoric here? I see no reason to believe that he would have been treated differently by the FBI, and besides, he would probably have been extradited right back to Germany.
- danssig 16y ago
  You don't appear to be aware of what's going on in the US right now. I would also suggest reading what pg has to say about identity (and keeping it small).
  - borism 16y ago
    link?
    - GFischer 16y ago
      http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html About considering you part of something: "..There is a step beyond thinking of yourself as x but tolerating y: not even to consider yourself an x. The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you."

ryandvm 16y ago

No kidding. I would love to hear Gabe Newell's take on this article. That kid was a hairbreadth away from spending half a decade in a federal pen. That had to be a hell of a "whew" moment he had in that police station.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]

Semiapies 16y ago

The cops were "cordial" after rousting him out of bed while pointing automatic weapons at him. In other words, they armed up and stormed the residence of a suspect of a non-violent crime. That sounds pretty standard for the US, and for the same reason indicated by the instruction, "Get out of bed. Do not touch the keyboard". SWAT-style tactics are rarely about any actual belief that the suspect has weapons and is likely to resist arrest, but about violently (sometimes lethally) subduing a suspect who might destroy evidence and impair the prosecution's case. And, of course, the overtime pay for SWAT work in many US jurisdictions. Don't know how that works in Germany.

basugasubaku 16y ago
On the reddit thread, the guy says that was inaccurate and they were actually "really nice" in waking him up. http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fpkav/the_boy_who_stole_halflife_2_fascinating_article/c1hp9ov http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fpkav/the_boy_who_st...
- Semiapies 16y ago
  Hmm! I wonder what that's about. Thanks for the information.

ars 16y ago

Things would have been exactly the same in the US. The stories that get all the publicity are the bad ones which of course leads you to think that's all there is. But by far most cases end up exactly like this one. Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. If you are honest and open with them you get a far milder punishment than someone who won't talk. I've seen it in so many case reports. Judges are trying to figure out what kind of person you are. If you are open and honest they figure you made a mistake, but are basically a good person and thus don't need much punishment. On the other hand someone who won't talk is assumed to have a more negative mindset. I don't mean to suggest that not talking is taken as evidence for guilt - guilt is established separately and is not based on your cooperation. But the punishment for that guilt varies depending on your behavior in court and to the cops. A lot of the advice on the internet about not talking to cops etc is aimed at avoiding guilt. And it may work. But it utterly ignores the second half, which to me seems almost as important, and that is punishment.

jessedhillon 16y ago
> Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. Traffic tickets are not even in the same league as the kind of offenses that we're talking about here, but if they are any indication then I have to agree. I've gotten out of my last three traffic stops by simply telling the cop exactly what I did: driving in the HOV lane without a passenger, rolling through a stop sign, and doing 40 in a 25. These people -- law enforcement and the court -- get jerked around all day by people who insult their intelligence with bullshit stories. It must be refreshing to hear someone clearly admit what they did with no attempt to evade responsibility.
- Tomis 16y ago
  Now you've ruined it.