5 ms·

Even 10 years ago, normal cars had doors that line up, and proper paint jobs.

latortuga 7y ago
This is a brand new car company that has built manufacturing from scratch. 10 years ago, car companies had been manufacturing cars for decades. This stuff doesn't happen overnight.
- neuronic 7y ago
  Ah ok, this justifies luxury prices then. I mean early adopter surcharges.
  - mcv 7y ago
    It's absolutely an early-adopter surcharge. At luxury prices, because that's the only way to start a completely new car manufacturer at this scale. Most new car companies are small affairs that hand-build fairly simple cars at luxury prices from their garage. They get away with it because they offer something unique. So does Tesla, only they try to do it at scale.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      It's not like this wasn't a publicly known fact, a strategy they officially wrote about.
      - marvin 7y ago
        Since 2006, in fact, if I remember correctly.
      - michaelt 7y ago
        Pretty sure the Roadster and the Model S were the luxury cars, and the Model 3 was supposed to be the affordable, non-luxury one.
        Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
        Roadster 1.0 definitely was not a luxury car. It was just a proof of concept to show that an EV could be made that doesn't suck. It got attention and investors to fund the development of the Model S.
        philwelch 7y ago
        It’s in the same price range as an Audi A4, Mercedes C300, BMW i3, Audi TT, and Lexus ES. It’s an entry level luxury car. It’s twice as expensive as a Volkswagen Jetta, Toyota Corolla, or Honda Civic.
        sliken 7y ago
        Yes, true. But generally electrics are much cheaper to own. Assume 12k miles a year and figure the cost to own for 10 years. Might be higher than the corolla or civic, but similar or better than the accord or camry. Generally it will be quicker, quieter, and safer than the competition and most (that can) would rather plug in at home than regularly visit gas stations. So model 3 might be a luxury car, but the cost to own is clearly lower than any of the luxury cars you mention, except the BMW i3.
        philwelch 7y ago
        A Camry costs around $24,000. $16,000 worth of gas, at $2.4 per gallon, times the EPA 34mpg combined gas mileage of the 2020 Camry, is good for over 200,000 miles. And that's assuming that the power to charge your car is completely free--it isn't, even though it's less than the price of gas on a per-mile basis.
        sliken 7y ago
        Around $24k, good luck finding one of those on the lot. At toyota.com the Camry pictured is $35,555. Over 200k miles How much will you spend on brake pads? Brake Discs? Gas? How about the scheduled 40 Oil changes? How about things outside of the regular maintenance? Belts? Catalytic converts? Timing chain? Engine mounts? Head gaskets? Spark plugs? Clutch? How many miles will you burn driving to/from gas stations? How much of your time worth finding, using, and returning from gas stations? Do you really want to visit a smelly gas station covered with signs about the cancer it causes (in California anyways)? Sure a Tesla over 200k miles will burn a fair amount of power around 50,000 kwh (75 kwh per 300 miles or so). But the other consumables are few. Sure wipers, tires (replacement and rotation), cabin filters, windshield fluid, etc. But generally the electric motors have few parts, are extremely reliable, and don't require any regularly scheduled maintenance. I've had 2 Subarus and a low end Acura Integra. And most maintenance I've had (except tires/and wipers) was for something that didn't exist on an electric car. Timing chains, spark plugs, oil changes, head gasket, catalytic converter, engine mounts, clutch, etc.
  - nickpeterson 7y ago
    I don’t plan on buying a Tesla anytime soon, but the amount of critics that seem to hate everything they do is stunning to me. They are producing an electric car you can buy. They basically forced other companies to produce electric cars you can buy. It’s awesome. Be a little kid again for just a minute...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      "They are producing an electric car you can buy. They basically forced other companies to produce electric cars you can buy. It’s awesome. Be a little kid again for just a minute..." This seems like a proverbial "reality distortion field" to me. The Tesla model 3 came out about 7 years after the Nissan Leaf, didn't it? And given a reasonable budget, it's arguably still not an example of a car "you can buy". Yes, there were Teslas before the model 3, but there were also electric cars from other manufacturers for many years.
      - jsight 7y ago
        TBH, I think the idea that the Leaf from 7 years ago is in the same segment requires some distortion of reality. The Leaf is not nearly as sporty, had a much lower range, and also had a much less reliable battery. The modern Leaf fixes these problems by being as expensive as a Model 3, and its still slower.
        perl4ever 7y ago
        It's not in the same segment, but it's in the segment people pretend the model 3 is in - an electric car for the ordinary person.
        ilikehurdles 7y ago
        The modern leaf is close to $10,000 cheaper than a Model 3. $31600 vs $39990.
kenips 7y ago
What is your time estimate for a company to fix their assembly alignment and paint issues versus the technologies being years behind in a car? That’s the point here.
- eloisant 7y ago
  I don't know much about cars manufacturing, but it sounds easier to source powerful/recent chips than ensuring all of your factories produce high quality mechanical parts.
rblatz 7y ago
Turns out that the average consumer of $40k+ EVs doesn’t give a shit about minor cosmetic issues if the rest of the car is years ahead of the competition. Maybe there is a lesson in there about always questioning priorities to ensure they are inline with the market.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  There are other good EVs, and more in the pipeline. I think it would be more accurate to say that Tesla fans don't care much about minor cosmetic issues, because ... they're fans. This makes sense.
  - sliken 7y ago
    Drive a Tesla, I bet you'll find things you like that are way more important than minor cosmetic issues, which seems unlikely. Sure when making cars at 5k a week or more, there's some mistakes. A friend had a piece of trim misaligned. Tesla came out, on site, and fixed it. He's pretty happy.

This is a brand new car company that has built manufacturing from scratch. 10 years ago, car companies had been manufacturing cars for decades. This stuff doesn't happen overnight.

neuronic 7y ago
Ah ok, this justifies luxury prices then. I mean early adopter surcharges.
- mcv 7y ago
  It's absolutely an early-adopter surcharge. At luxury prices, because that's the only way to start a completely new car manufacturer at this scale. Most new car companies are small affairs that hand-build fairly simple cars at luxury prices from their garage. They get away with it because they offer something unique. So does Tesla, only they try to do it at scale.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    It's not like this wasn't a publicly known fact, a strategy they officially wrote about.
    - marvin 7y ago
      Since 2006, in fact, if I remember correctly.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      Pretty sure the Roadster and the Model S were the luxury cars, and the Model 3 was supposed to be the affordable, non-luxury one.
      - Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
        Roadster 1.0 definitely was not a luxury car. It was just a proof of concept to show that an EV could be made that doesn't suck. It got attention and investors to fund the development of the Model S.
      - philwelch 7y ago
        It’s in the same price range as an Audi A4, Mercedes C300, BMW i3, Audi TT, and Lexus ES. It’s an entry level luxury car. It’s twice as expensive as a Volkswagen Jetta, Toyota Corolla, or Honda Civic.
        sliken 7y ago
        Yes, true. But generally electrics are much cheaper to own. Assume 12k miles a year and figure the cost to own for 10 years. Might be higher than the corolla or civic, but similar or better than the accord or camry. Generally it will be quicker, quieter, and safer than the competition and most (that can) would rather plug in at home than regularly visit gas stations. So model 3 might be a luxury car, but the cost to own is clearly lower than any of the luxury cars you mention, except the BMW i3.
        philwelch 7y ago
        A Camry costs around $24,000. $16,000 worth of gas, at $2.4 per gallon, times the EPA 34mpg combined gas mileage of the 2020 Camry, is good for over 200,000 miles. And that's assuming that the power to charge your car is completely free--it isn't, even though it's less than the price of gas on a per-mile basis.
        sliken 7y ago
        Around $24k, good luck finding one of those on the lot. At toyota.com the Camry pictured is $35,555. Over 200k miles How much will you spend on brake pads? Brake Discs? Gas? How about the scheduled 40 Oil changes? How about things outside of the regular maintenance? Belts? Catalytic converts? Timing chain? Engine mounts? Head gaskets? Spark plugs? Clutch? How many miles will you burn driving to/from gas stations? How much of your time worth finding, using, and returning from gas stations? Do you really want to visit a smelly gas station covered with signs about the cancer it causes (in California anyways)? Sure a Tesla over 200k miles will burn a fair amount of power around 50,000 kwh (75 kwh per 300 miles or so). But the other consumables are few. Sure wipers, tires (replacement and rotation), cabin filters, windshield fluid, etc. But generally the electric motors have few parts, are extremely reliable, and don't require any regularly scheduled maintenance. I've had 2 Subarus and a low end Acura Integra. And most maintenance I've had (except tires/and wipers) was for something that didn't exist on an electric car. Timing chains, spark plugs, oil changes, head gasket, catalytic converter, engine mounts, clutch, etc.
- nickpeterson 7y ago
  I don’t plan on buying a Tesla anytime soon, but the amount of critics that seem to hate everything they do is stunning to me. They are producing an electric car you can buy. They basically forced other companies to produce electric cars you can buy. It’s awesome. Be a little kid again for just a minute...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    "They are producing an electric car you can buy. They basically forced other companies to produce electric cars you can buy. It’s awesome. Be a little kid again for just a minute..." This seems like a proverbial "reality distortion field" to me. The Tesla model 3 came out about 7 years after the Nissan Leaf, didn't it? And given a reasonable budget, it's arguably still not an example of a car "you can buy". Yes, there were Teslas before the model 3, but there were also electric cars from other manufacturers for many years.
    - jsight 7y ago
      TBH, I think the idea that the Leaf from 7 years ago is in the same segment requires some distortion of reality. The Leaf is not nearly as sporty, had a much lower range, and also had a much less reliable battery. The modern Leaf fixes these problems by being as expensive as a Model 3, and its still slower.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        It's not in the same segment, but it's in the segment people pretend the model 3 is in - an electric car for the ordinary person.
      - ilikehurdles 7y ago
        The modern leaf is close to $10,000 cheaper than a Model 3. $31600 vs $39990.

kenips 7y ago

What is your time estimate for a company to fix their assembly alignment and paint issues versus the technologies being years behind in a car? That’s the point here.

eloisant 7y ago
I don't know much about cars manufacturing, but it sounds easier to source powerful/recent chips than ensuring all of your factories produce high quality mechanical parts.

rblatz 7y ago

Turns out that the average consumer of $40k+ EVs doesn’t give a shit about minor cosmetic issues if the rest of the car is years ahead of the competition. Maybe there is a lesson in there about always questioning priorities to ensure they are inline with the market.

rootusrootus 7y ago
There are other good EVs, and more in the pipeline. I think it would be more accurate to say that Tesla fans don't care much about minor cosmetic issues, because ... they're fans. This makes sense.
- sliken 7y ago
  Drive a Tesla, I bet you'll find things you like that are way more important than minor cosmetic issues, which seems unlikely. Sure when making cars at 5k a week or more, there's some mistakes. A friend had a piece of trim misaligned. Tesla came out, on site, and fixed it. He's pretty happy.