6 ms·

Over the last 2 months I’ve managed about 3k new loc and 90 classes, so that’s about 60ish lines per work day. I don’t feel like I was that productive though an

Over the last 2 months I’ve managed about 3k new loc and 90 classes, so that’s about 60ish lines per work day. I don’t feel like I was that productive though and spent a lot of time refactoring. Eg, last 1k lines barely added any features What do you do to keep up a fast pace in a big project without throwing quality out? They say TDD increases your speed overall, according to a few case studies I found (15% longer to code, but 40% less bugs, so faster finish times overall etc)

onion2k 7y ago
I don’t feel like I was that productive though and spent a lot of time refactoring. Eg, last 1k lines barely added any features "being productive === adding features" is a very negative way to think about development, and exactly the sort of mindset that leads to projects that grind to a halt under the weight of tech debt. Good software comes from all the parts of the process, including maintenance of the code base to reduce drag on features you'll write in the future. When you write requirements, do refactoring, test things, write documentation, etc you are being productive. Your future self will thank you for the effort you put in to the non-code work now.
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  This is the engineering point of view, but in a business productivity is judged from a business point of view. The goal of software development is to deliver chargeable value to customers. When you refactor code you do not deliver value to customers and since you have spent time and resources to do that your overall productivity from a business point of view has in fact dropped.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    When you refactor code you do not deliver value to customers.. You do though, by reducing the future cost of delivering features. That has tremendous value. Find a company that sees good engineering as a long term investment rather than a short term way of extracting money from customers and you'll enjoy software development a lot more.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Will you be able to sell more software or increase the price of your software because you refactored some code? No, your customers don't care two hoots about that. Refactoring is an internal activity. It's part of the cost of development.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        Will you be able to sell more software or increase the price of your software because you refactored some code? Yes I will, because the cost of development will be lower. That makes my customers happy so they give me more work. I'll also have fewer defects which improves my reputation which means I can charge more. No, your customers don't care two hoots about that. I mostly write software for SaaS companies. Their customers (the end users of the software) don't care about it much besides seeing fewer problems and getting to use better software, but my customers (the people who own the software) really do.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        If you're arguing that you might get paid as a contractor to refactor some code therefore refactoring is a productive activity for a business point of view then you have completely missed the point. Edit: I'm not arguing that refactoring isn't necessary or important. It is. But it should be kept to a minimum because it really is a pure cost and does not deliver anything of value to end users. Your customers are the engineering teams of software business. They sometimes need to refactor their code. But their business would prefer they didn't because that's money spent on something invisible to end users (the end customers).
        onion2k 7y ago
        I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying that all parts of the development process are important and each part adds to what you can charge for and how much you can charge. If you're good at writing software and understand how to create a maintainable, robust, well tested code base then you can get paid for things like refactoring, documentation, testing, etc. Clients understand that writing software is more than just delivering features. Specifically in my own case, the company I work for writes software for (mostly) software product companies. When we plan what to do in a sprint 'refactoring' is part of that. We literally charge for the time we spend doing it. How long we spend refactoring is agreed by the customer's project / product manager. They understand why it's necessary and important, and they want us to do it.
  - jammygit 7y ago
    My hope is that the refactoring today will pay me back over the next 6 months in saved time / stability
downerending 7y ago
In a lot of places, quality is not a priority. Or even, it can be an anti-priority: First you get rewarded for producing prodigious amounts of crap code, then you get rewarded again for the heroic efforts it takes to fix that crap code. There are multiple Dilbert strips on this topic.

onion2k 7y ago

I don’t feel like I was that productive though and spent a lot of time refactoring. Eg, last 1k lines barely added any features "being productive === adding features" is a very negative way to think about development, and exactly the sort of mindset that leads to projects that grind to a halt under the weight of tech debt. Good software comes from all the parts of the process, including maintenance of the code base to reduce drag on features you'll write in the future. When you write requirements, do refactoring, test things, write documentation, etc you are being productive. Your future self will thank you for the effort you put in to the non-code work now.

mytailorisrich 7y ago
This is the engineering point of view, but in a business productivity is judged from a business point of view. The goal of software development is to deliver chargeable value to customers. When you refactor code you do not deliver value to customers and since you have spent time and resources to do that your overall productivity from a business point of view has in fact dropped.
- onion2k 7y ago
  When you refactor code you do not deliver value to customers.. You do though, by reducing the future cost of delivering features. That has tremendous value. Find a company that sees good engineering as a long term investment rather than a short term way of extracting money from customers and you'll enjoy software development a lot more.
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Will you be able to sell more software or increase the price of your software because you refactored some code? No, your customers don't care two hoots about that. Refactoring is an internal activity. It's part of the cost of development.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      Will you be able to sell more software or increase the price of your software because you refactored some code? Yes I will, because the cost of development will be lower. That makes my customers happy so they give me more work. I'll also have fewer defects which improves my reputation which means I can charge more. No, your customers don't care two hoots about that. I mostly write software for SaaS companies. Their customers (the end users of the software) don't care about it much besides seeing fewer problems and getting to use better software, but my customers (the people who own the software) really do.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        If you're arguing that you might get paid as a contractor to refactor some code therefore refactoring is a productive activity for a business point of view then you have completely missed the point. Edit: I'm not arguing that refactoring isn't necessary or important. It is. But it should be kept to a minimum because it really is a pure cost and does not deliver anything of value to end users. Your customers are the engineering teams of software business. They sometimes need to refactor their code. But their business would prefer they didn't because that's money spent on something invisible to end users (the end customers).
        onion2k 7y ago
        I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying that all parts of the development process are important and each part adds to what you can charge for and how much you can charge. If you're good at writing software and understand how to create a maintainable, robust, well tested code base then you can get paid for things like refactoring, documentation, testing, etc. Clients understand that writing software is more than just delivering features. Specifically in my own case, the company I work for writes software for (mostly) software product companies. When we plan what to do in a sprint 'refactoring' is part of that. We literally charge for the time we spend doing it. How long we spend refactoring is agreed by the customer's project / product manager. They understand why it's necessary and important, and they want us to do it.
- jammygit 7y ago
  My hope is that the refactoring today will pay me back over the next 6 months in saved time / stability

downerending 7y ago

In a lot of places, quality is not a priority. Or even, it can be an anti-priority: First you get rewarded for producing prodigious amounts of crap code, then you get rewarded again for the heroic efforts it takes to fix that crap code. There are multiple Dilbert strips on this topic.