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Question as a member. Would today be a good day to request that janitorial services be restored? Do I really need to clean the church's toilets once a year to

Question as a member. Would today be a good day to request that janitorial services be restored? Do I really need to clean the church's toilets once a year to get to heaven?

themodelplumber 7y ago
The cleaning is part of the church's treasured psychology of self-reliance, not just a money thing. In fact the money could be argued to have emerged from that self-reliance psychology, even if it's also true that a psychology can be emphasized within an organization or individual to a relatively pornographic degree (detached from current/realistic context). Plus they've been selling off buildings since they are such a maintenance suck. But still, it's an amusing thought and I see no reason not to try :D
- tomrod 7y ago
  This seems like a post-hoc justification. The LDS facility services had several lifetime career workers they fired after implementing this policy, and the congregants rarely kept it as clean.
  - Iwillgetby 7y ago
    I thought the same thing. I played basketball on 100s of Saturdays in the 80s/90s and still think about the kind janitors that cleaned multiple buildings on Saturday. Many lost their jobs due to that policy change and it seemed like nobody realized the people lost their job because of it.
shemnon42 7y ago
You are more likely to clean up your kid's goldfish crackers they spilled in the pews (or not give them goldfish during worship service to begin with) when you take a turn vacuuming the chapel yourself.
tzs 7y ago
That's the thing I find most interesting about the Mormon church. In most other churches if you don't get into heaven your afterlife really really really sucks. They tend to be very binary--eternity in paradise, or eternity of inconceivable torture and torment. Mormon afterlife has four possible destinations: the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, the Telestial Kingdom, and the outer darkness. The Celestial Kingdom corresponds with heaven of other Christian sects. The outer darkness kind of corresponds to hell in that it is where Satan resides, but I don't know if it is a place to torment like it is in other sects. It's pretty hard to get sent to the outer darkness. It's for people who know that God is real, and choose to go against Him. Note that this does not include people that are told about God and do not believe--it is people who receive a personal revelation that He exists and still reject it. Those who are merely told about God and reject those teachings, but who were decent people get the Terrestrial Kingdom. Those who don't qualify for that because they were not decent, such as liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, etc., get the Telestial Kingdom. They are resurrected and given an immortal physical body. No torment or torture...the Telestial Kingdom is supposed to be a very nice place to live out your now eternal physical life. The Telestial Kingdom sounds acceptable to me, and I'd probably actually make it to the Terrestrial Kingdom if Mormonism turns out to be right. So what's the case to convert to Mormonism, or for people raised Mormon to stick with it? With the churches with the binary paradise/infinite torture afterlife, a Pascal's Wager type argument might work, even if I think there is a low probability that the church is right. With Mormonism, if I think that there is only a low probability that it is right, a Pascal's Wager approach can tell me to optimize for my mortal life. Even if I decide that some sort of Christian or Christian offshoot must be correct, if I narrow it down to a list that includes Mormonism and one or more of the eternal damnation sects, another Pascal's Wager like argument would tell me to pick one of the eternal damnation sects.
- miedpo 7y ago
  For a simple answer to your question (you may have answered it asked it more rhetorically, and if so, sorry), the case to convert is just that we pray about it and get an answer. There's a lot of reasons the church's teachings are good to believe in, but it's kinda useless if God isn't saying it's right if you know what I mean. I grew up not believing in God at all. But when it came time, I asked God, if he existed, to give me an answer. And as best as I can interpret, he did. So yeah, that's kinda why, if you wanted to know. The reasons are extra on top of the actual question if that makes any sense :p Hope you're having a good day.

Question as a member. Would today be a good day to request that janitorial services be restored? Do I really need to clean the church's toilets once a year to get to heaven?

themodelplumber 7y ago

The cleaning is part of the church's treasured psychology of self-reliance, not just a money thing. In fact the money could be argued to have emerged from that self-reliance psychology, even if it's also true that a psychology can be emphasized within an organization or individual to a relatively pornographic degree (detached from current/realistic context). Plus they've been selling off buildings since they are such a maintenance suck. But still, it's an amusing thought and I see no reason not to try :D

tomrod 7y ago
This seems like a post-hoc justification. The LDS facility services had several lifetime career workers they fired after implementing this policy, and the congregants rarely kept it as clean.
- Iwillgetby 7y ago
  I thought the same thing. I played basketball on 100s of Saturdays in the 80s/90s and still think about the kind janitors that cleaned multiple buildings on Saturday. Many lost their jobs due to that policy change and it seemed like nobody realized the people lost their job because of it.

shemnon42 7y ago

You are more likely to clean up your kid's goldfish crackers they spilled in the pews (or not give them goldfish during worship service to begin with) when you take a turn vacuuming the chapel yourself.

tzs 7y ago

That's the thing I find most interesting about the Mormon church. In most other churches if you don't get into heaven your afterlife really really really sucks. They tend to be very binary--eternity in paradise, or eternity of inconceivable torture and torment. Mormon afterlife has four possible destinations: the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, the Telestial Kingdom, and the outer darkness. The Celestial Kingdom corresponds with heaven of other Christian sects. The outer darkness kind of corresponds to hell in that it is where Satan resides, but I don't know if it is a place to torment like it is in other sects. It's pretty hard to get sent to the outer darkness. It's for people who know that God is real, and choose to go against Him. Note that this does not include people that are told about God and do not believe--it is people who receive a personal revelation that He exists and still reject it. Those who are merely told about God and reject those teachings, but who were decent people get the Terrestrial Kingdom. Those who don't qualify for that because they were not decent, such as liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, etc., get the Telestial Kingdom. They are resurrected and given an immortal physical body. No torment or torture...the Telestial Kingdom is supposed to be a very nice place to live out your now eternal physical life. The Telestial Kingdom sounds acceptable to me, and I'd probably actually make it to the Terrestrial Kingdom if Mormonism turns out to be right. So what's the case to convert to Mormonism, or for people raised Mormon to stick with it? With the churches with the binary paradise/infinite torture afterlife, a Pascal's Wager type argument might work, even if I think there is a low probability that the church is right. With Mormonism, if I think that there is only a low probability that it is right, a Pascal's Wager approach can tell me to optimize for my mortal life. Even if I decide that some sort of Christian or Christian offshoot must be correct, if I narrow it down to a list that includes Mormonism and one or more of the eternal damnation sects, another Pascal's Wager like argument would tell me to pick one of the eternal damnation sects.

miedpo 7y ago
For a simple answer to your question (you may have answered it asked it more rhetorically, and if so, sorry), the case to convert is just that we pray about it and get an answer. There's a lot of reasons the church's teachings are good to believe in, but it's kinda useless if God isn't saying it's right if you know what I mean. I grew up not believing in God at all. But when it came time, I asked God, if he existed, to give me an answer. And as best as I can interpret, he did. So yeah, that's kinda why, if you wanted to know. The reasons are extra on top of the actual question if that makes any sense :p Hope you're having a good day.