7 ms·

Nope - it really is about 20000€ the government gives to families.

ryanmercer 7y ago
Wow, threads on here constantly make me wish I lived in Germany as it sounds like German has really awesome employment protection too.
- codingmess 7y ago
  In my opinion, the best protection is to have valuable skills. I personally see no good reason for employment protection. I live in Germany, however, as a freelancer I get no protection at all. Why do some people deserve it, and others don't? What makes an "employee"? I can understand having to "insure" against the risk of becoming too specialized. Like if you work for one company for years or decades, it might be difficult to find employment elsewhere. However, that insurance should be factored into the contracts "employees" are willing to accept. Likewise as a freelancer, I have to ask for a certain minimum amount of money to cover my risks. Even for employees the protection might have downsides. They are stuck with inefficient coworkers who can't be fired.If you are young, you'll have to leave before people who are older. And employees might stick to jobs where they are not doing their best for too long. And overall, creation of business is hampered, which hurts everybody. Just some thoughts.
rglullis 7y ago
"gives" after taking almost double in taxes. And I will surely have more years paying tons of taxes than paternity leaves. Forgive them, Milton, for they don't know what they are saying.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  Never fail to mark a net gain for humanity as financially ineffective obstacle. You know there exist some middle ground between dysfunctional socialism and brutal capitalism? Those places are comparably a paradise for common folks like most of us. To be treated with respect like a human being and having overall a good life is still a privilege in 21st century.
  - rglullis 7y ago
    > You know there exist some middle ground between dysfunctional socialism and brutal capitalism? This is so far from the point of my comment, it really illustrates how people will view and comment based on the their preconceptions and worldviews before any attempt at rational thought. I am not saying that the social program is bad. What I did try to point out is that there is no real "giving" of anything. That is all. We cool?
- codingmess 7y ago
  What do you mean by "taking double in taxes"? Yes, parents also pay taxes, although usually less than single people because of the "split income". It is still a net transfer of money from single people to parents. (Not only for parental leave, also schools for example, or even free childcare in many places).
  - rglullis 7y ago
    I mean that literally. OP said that the govt pays up to 20000 EUR in Elterngeld, and I can show you tax returns where I paid almost double that in a single year. I don't get what is so difficult or controversial about my statement here. Whether Elterngeld or "free" childcare, there is no "giving" by the government of anything, that is all.
    - codingmess 7y ago
      I don't understand your logic. You would have paid those high taxes regardless of Elterngeld. You didn't pay those high taxes because you received Elterngeld. Therefore, if you receive Elterngeld, you receive it from other people. Yes, the government doesn't "give" money, it redistributes it. Some other people are paying for your Elterngeld. Even if in your head you assume that it is paid from the taxes you paid, the money you received for Elterngeld is now missing for other things, they are a loss for the rest of society.
      - rglullis 7y ago
        I think we are in agreement for most of the things. I am glad to see we agree that the money from the Govt is not "given" to the people. This was the point of my first comment. I just want to disabuse you from this idea you seem to hold that the money I received is from "other people". It is not. It is from the Government. Sure it was taken from all of society via taxes, but once it is taken it is no longer yours or mine to determine what to do with it. There is no point in trying to argue who-paid-for-what in this redistribution made by the Government. If there were a choice for tax payers to say where they want their taxes to go, sure let's go and talk about "Who is paying for my wife's Elterngeld". But there is no such rational and efficient resource allocation method in any Big Welfare State, is there? There is no way to pull apart who is "me and my family" and who is "the rest of society", is there? There is just - like you said - one big redistribution of wealth driven by bureaucrats who are (allegedly) working in the best interests of the people. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Wow, threads on here constantly make me wish I lived in Germany as it sounds like German has really awesome employment protection too.

codingmess 7y ago
In my opinion, the best protection is to have valuable skills. I personally see no good reason for employment protection. I live in Germany, however, as a freelancer I get no protection at all. Why do some people deserve it, and others don't? What makes an "employee"? I can understand having to "insure" against the risk of becoming too specialized. Like if you work for one company for years or decades, it might be difficult to find employment elsewhere. However, that insurance should be factored into the contracts "employees" are willing to accept. Likewise as a freelancer, I have to ask for a certain minimum amount of money to cover my risks. Even for employees the protection might have downsides. They are stuck with inefficient coworkers who can't be fired.If you are young, you'll have to leave before people who are older. And employees might stick to jobs where they are not doing their best for too long. And overall, creation of business is hampered, which hurts everybody. Just some thoughts.

rglullis 7y ago

"gives" after taking almost double in taxes. And I will surely have more years paying tons of taxes than paternity leaves. Forgive them, Milton, for they don't know what they are saying.

saiya-jin 7y ago
Never fail to mark a net gain for humanity as financially ineffective obstacle. You know there exist some middle ground between dysfunctional socialism and brutal capitalism? Those places are comparably a paradise for common folks like most of us. To be treated with respect like a human being and having overall a good life is still a privilege in 21st century.
- rglullis 7y ago
  > You know there exist some middle ground between dysfunctional socialism and brutal capitalism? This is so far from the point of my comment, it really illustrates how people will view and comment based on the their preconceptions and worldviews before any attempt at rational thought. I am not saying that the social program is bad. What I did try to point out is that there is no real "giving" of anything. That is all. We cool?
codingmess 7y ago
What do you mean by "taking double in taxes"? Yes, parents also pay taxes, although usually less than single people because of the "split income". It is still a net transfer of money from single people to parents. (Not only for parental leave, also schools for example, or even free childcare in many places).
- rglullis 7y ago
  I mean that literally. OP said that the govt pays up to 20000 EUR in Elterngeld, and I can show you tax returns where I paid almost double that in a single year. I don't get what is so difficult or controversial about my statement here. Whether Elterngeld or "free" childcare, there is no "giving" by the government of anything, that is all.
  - codingmess 7y ago
    I don't understand your logic. You would have paid those high taxes regardless of Elterngeld. You didn't pay those high taxes because you received Elterngeld. Therefore, if you receive Elterngeld, you receive it from other people. Yes, the government doesn't "give" money, it redistributes it. Some other people are paying for your Elterngeld. Even if in your head you assume that it is paid from the taxes you paid, the money you received for Elterngeld is now missing for other things, they are a loss for the rest of society.
    - rglullis 7y ago
      I think we are in agreement for most of the things. I am glad to see we agree that the money from the Govt is not "given" to the people. This was the point of my first comment. I just want to disabuse you from this idea you seem to hold that the money I received is from "other people". It is not. It is from the Government. Sure it was taken from all of society via taxes, but once it is taken it is no longer yours or mine to determine what to do with it. There is no point in trying to argue who-paid-for-what in this redistribution made by the Government. If there were a choice for tax payers to say where they want their taxes to go, sure let's go and talk about "Who is paying for my wife's Elterngeld". But there is no such rational and efficient resource allocation method in any Big Welfare State, is there? There is no way to pull apart who is "me and my family" and who is "the rest of society", is there? There is just - like you said - one big redistribution of wealth driven by bureaucrats who are (allegedly) working in the best interests of the people. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.