5 ms·

The V Programming Language

65 points by archivist1 7y ago

sagichmal 7y ago
This is vaporware bordering on a scam, please don't signal boost it. https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...
- quickthrower2 7y ago
  Just teething problems I reckon par for the course for a new language. Not honoring monotonic let alone semantic versioning is a bit annoying but oh well.
  - stefano 7y ago
    These are not normal teething problems, it's straight up poor poor software and the claims about the supported features are quite simply lies right now. Last time I looked at the compiler, it was basically doing search and replace to generate buggy C code.
    - quickthrower2 7y ago
      Oh that’s horrendous given the safety claims they are making!
- blattimwind 7y ago
  > hellomodule ... hellomodule.o ... hellomodule__print_1_1 ... "cannot import module "mymodule" (not found)" …oh dear. Can someone file this as an issue for me? Well...
- DigitalJetsam 7y ago
  I don't understand why someone would even waste their time writing an article like this.
- fergie 7y ago
  Came here to ask why this project was at the top of HN with 15k stars on github yet I had never heard of it. Was also wondering just why- the scope, claims and goals of the project make no sense.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- rvz 7y ago
  A scam on what? Did you pay money for this? Just like any other open-source language, it is a work-in-progress and obviously isn't complete. If it were vapourware, it wouldn't be open-source would it?. ;) It's nice to keep posting links from authors who are biased against the V project but I don't think you have at least tried the language. Just like an operating system, a programming language is very difficult in itself to maintain and V seems to be actively maintained. So please signal boost it.
- kgraves 7y ago
  This is like complaining about a painting that is not finished yet. The project clearly states that some features are a work in progress (wip)[0]. What happens when this project achieves all those goals? That blog post will become irrelevant. If this is 'vaporware' why is it open source? We should be happy that this project is now developed in the open and not closed up. [0] https://vlang.io/ https://vlang.io/
- coldtea 7y ago
  This is a language in development, which already has code available, compiles, has programs and libs written in it, etc. One could say varpourware back in spring when V was first posted but the repo was closed etc. Not anymore. But you could say that it overpromises and underdelivers...
hawkice 7y ago
Those fast compiles, fast speed, plus the feature list (standard generics and hot code reloading) make this look insanely cool! What's the secret sauce? The translation from C and compile being 25x faster than just compiling C seems nearly impossible. Edit: sibling comment points out it may seem amazingly cool and nearly impossible because it does not, in fact, exist. How can we learn more about the feasibility of this living up to their claims?
- mstade 7y ago
  This has been discussed on HN several times before, and as far as I can tell most of the claims have been too good to be true. For a bit more nuanced review, Christine Dodrill has written posts on the topic, with this being the latest: https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...
- hippyhippo 7y ago
  > What's the secret sauce? Lies. On a more serious note, compilers and programming languages take years to get into a usable state, and V very much in early stages of development, pre-pre-pre-alpha or similar quality. It is far from usable for any serious work at all. All the listed features are "planned features", many of which are not yet implementd or buggy. In other words, as development progresses, the author of V will realize that it is not easy to design/implement those features properly, otherwise every language would have that.
- IshKebab 7y ago
  > The translation from C and compile being 25x faster than just compiling C seems nearly impossible. It's easy to make a language that compiles faster than C. First get rid of the C preprocessor, and fix the syntax so it is easier to parse (e.g. `name: Type` rather than `Type name`). You can go even further and make it possible to parse each line independently (I think Zig does this?). Second use a simple modern code generator that doesn't do much optimisation.
quickthrower2 7y ago
But can it run Doom? Yes. Proof for those clicking the small triangular: https://vlang.io/img/doom.png https://vlang.io/img/doom.png
- shakna 7y ago
  > The doom example is still only one file that doesn’t even compile anymore. [0] Seems that it can _sometimes_ do Doom. [0] https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...
lbj 7y ago
Looks close to Crystal but very much a work in progress
raitucarp 7y ago
Why someone bump this again?
DigitalJetsam 7y ago
> Simplicity: the language can be learned in less than an hour > Built-in ORM Chortle
hellofunk 7y ago
> There's no garbage collection or reference counting. V cleans everything up during compilation. If your V program compiles, it's guaranteed that it's going to be leak free.
- tedzhu 7y ago
  I don't quite understand, what is guaranteeing it's leak free?
  - hellofunk 7y ago
    Exactly.
dang 7y ago
There have been a bunch of threads about this in the past year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485
- archivist1 7y ago
  I guess the paradox of killing them all so quickly is it's unlikely the signal of poor quality propagates widely first time I saw it was today and I thought it looked cool. I think name and shame, street parade the criminal would be a good moderation idea. don't just highlight the best, highlight the worst. it helps reinforce standards never seen a forum do that tho. it's always about the most liked but in society we also know the most hated
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

65 points by archivist1 7y ago

This is vaporware bordering on a scam, please don't signal boost it. https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...

quickthrower2 7y ago
Just teething problems I reckon par for the course for a new language. Not honoring monotonic let alone semantic versioning is a bit annoying but oh well.
- stefano 7y ago
  These are not normal teething problems, it's straight up poor poor software and the claims about the supported features are quite simply lies right now. Last time I looked at the compiler, it was basically doing search and replace to generate buggy C code.
  - quickthrower2 7y ago
    Oh that’s horrendous given the safety claims they are making!
blattimwind 7y ago
> hellomodule ... hellomodule.o ... hellomodule__print_1_1 ... "cannot import module "mymodule" (not found)" …oh dear. Can someone file this as an issue for me? Well...
DigitalJetsam 7y ago
I don't understand why someone would even waste their time writing an article like this.
fergie 7y ago
Came here to ask why this project was at the top of HN with 15k stars on github yet I had never heard of it. Was also wondering just why- the scope, claims and goals of the project make no sense.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
rvz 7y ago
A scam on what? Did you pay money for this? Just like any other open-source language, it is a work-in-progress and obviously isn't complete. If it were vapourware, it wouldn't be open-source would it?. ;) It's nice to keep posting links from authors who are biased against the V project but I don't think you have at least tried the language. Just like an operating system, a programming language is very difficult in itself to maintain and V seems to be actively maintained. So please signal boost it.
kgraves 7y ago
This is like complaining about a painting that is not finished yet. The project clearly states that some features are a work in progress (wip)[0]. What happens when this project achieves all those goals? That blog post will become irrelevant. If this is 'vaporware' why is it open source? We should be happy that this project is now developed in the open and not closed up. [0] https://vlang.io/ https://vlang.io/
coldtea 7y ago
This is a language in development, which already has code available, compiles, has programs and libs written in it, etc. One could say varpourware back in spring when V was first posted but the repo was closed etc. Not anymore. But you could say that it overpromises and underdelivers...

hawkice 7y ago

Those fast compiles, fast speed, plus the feature list (standard generics and hot code reloading) make this look insanely cool! What's the secret sauce? The translation from C and compile being 25x faster than just compiling C seems nearly impossible. Edit: sibling comment points out it may seem amazingly cool and nearly impossible because it does not, in fact, exist. How can we learn more about the feasibility of this living up to their claims?

mstade 7y ago
This has been discussed on HN several times before, and as far as I can tell most of the claims have been too good to be true. For a bit more nuanced review, Christine Dodrill has written posts on the topic, with this being the latest: https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...
hippyhippo 7y ago
> What's the secret sauce? Lies. On a more serious note, compilers and programming languages take years to get into a usable state, and V very much in early stages of development, pre-pre-pre-alpha or similar quality. It is far from usable for any serious work at all. All the listed features are "planned features", many of which are not yet implementd or buggy. In other words, as development progresses, the author of V will realize that it is not easy to design/implement those features properly, otherwise every language would have that.
IshKebab 7y ago
> The translation from C and compile being 25x faster than just compiling C seems nearly impossible. It's easy to make a language that compiles faster than C. First get rid of the C preprocessor, and fix the syntax so it is easier to parse (e.g. `name: Type` rather than `Type name`). You can go even further and make it possible to parse each line independently (I think Zig does this?). Second use a simple modern code generator that doesn't do much optimisation.

quickthrower2 7y ago

But can it run Doom? Yes. Proof for those clicking the small triangular: https://vlang.io/img/doom.png https://vlang.io/img/doom.png

shakna 7y ago
> The doom example is still only one file that doesn’t even compile anymore. [0] Seems that it can _sometimes_ do Doom. [0] https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-03 https://christine.website/blog/v-vvork-in-progress-2020-01-0...

lbj 7y ago

Looks close to Crystal but very much a work in progress

raitucarp 7y ago

Why someone bump this again?

DigitalJetsam 7y ago

> Simplicity: the language can be learned in less than an hour > Built-in ORM Chortle

hellofunk 7y ago

> There's no garbage collection or reference counting. V cleans everything up during compilation. If your V program compiles, it's guaranteed that it's going to be leak free.

tedzhu 7y ago
I don't quite understand, what is guaranteeing it's leak free?
- hellofunk 7y ago
  Exactly.

dang 7y ago

There have been a bunch of threads about this in the past year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20250990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20229632 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19403271 Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485

archivist1 7y ago
I guess the paradox of killing them all so quickly is it's unlikely the signal of poor quality propagates widely first time I saw it was today and I thought it looked cool. I think name and shame, street parade the criminal would be a good moderation idea. don't just highlight the best, highlight the worst. it helps reinforce standards never seen a forum do that tho. it's always about the most liked but in society we also know the most hated
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]