4 ms·

Because it was a pointless blanket statement? Anecdote - One classmate went on to study phage therapy in Europe, another went to work for Intralytix a phage th

Because it was a pointless blanket statement? Anecdote - One classmate went on to study phage therapy in Europe, another went to work for Intralytix a phage therapy biotech in the US, both PhDs. They were not laughed at by their advisor or their contemporaries for their decisions.

rhombocombus 7y ago
While true, phage therapy was dismissed as propagandized pseudoscience from the Soviet Union since they were the pioneers in the initial research (and the research did appear dodgy TBH). The landscape has changed, but really recently that was not the case and many microbiologists viewed anything phage related as utter nonsense. I am happy to see more research happening.
- Fomite 7y ago
  Note that phage therapy was used and understood in the west well before the Soviet Union came into existence. It fell out of use because of the dangers from poorly purified phage preps, and because antibiotics showed up at about the same time those issues could have been fixed, and are a far more useful general purpose tool.
  - chmod775 7y ago
    Do you have some sources for this? Because the Wikipedia article on phage therapy appears to directly contradict you. Directly after the paragraph about its discovery by an Englishman and a Frenchman: > A Georgian, George Eliava, was making similar discoveries. He travelled to the Pasteur Institute in Paris where he met d'Hérelle, and in 1923 he founded the Eliava Institute in Tbilisi, Georgia, devoted to the development of phage therapy. Georgia was part of the USSR at the time. It appears to be the first reference to any actual therapy. In any case it's a pretty tight schedule from the discovery of bacterophages in 1915/1917 to the formation of the USSR in 1922. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy Edit: Found something here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3442826/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3442826/ > From its first field trials as a prophylactic against avian typhosis (Salmonella gallinarum) in rural France in 1919 [...] I'm gonna file that under kinda, but not really. Something more in Félix d'Herelle's biography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_d%27Herelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_d%27Herelle > The first patient was healed of dysentery using phage therapy in August 1919. Many more followed. At the time, none, not even d'Hérelle, knew exactly what a phage was.
    - Fomite 7y ago
      Source: Infectious disease epidemiologist who has been interested in phage research for two decades ;) But you will find on that same Wikipedia page an entry for d'Herelle, and if you follow that...as you note yourself, you get an animal trial in 1919 as well as a human trial. D'Herelle then heads to Indochina to work on Cholera, and he's awarded an honorary doctorate two years after the USSR is founded - along with one of the field's most prestigious medals. --- Is that a tight timeline? Yes. But the idea that "The West" ignored phages because it was some sort of Soviet pseudoscience is contrary to the historical record. The west abandoned phage therapy because unfiltered endotoxins made phage therapy dangerous, and until the modern era, antibiotics are pretty superior in nearly every respect.
      - chmod775 7y ago
        Took me a while to dig up an online source of his 1921 monograph on the subject. For the curious: https://archive.org/details/lebactriophages00hrgoog/page/n9/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/lebactriophages00hrgoog/page/n9/... (PDF etc. downloads are at the bottom right)
        Fomite 7y ago
        If you're interested, Flemming's Nobel Prize speech transcript is here: https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2018/06/fleming-lecture.pdf https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2018/06/fleming-lecture.p... It's an excellent read.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - Fomite 7y ago
      What did happen because of the USSR is the institute in Georgia not abandoning phage research because they continued to have much more limited access to penicillin thanks to the Cold War.

rhombocombus 7y ago

While true, phage therapy was dismissed as propagandized pseudoscience from the Soviet Union since they were the pioneers in the initial research (and the research did appear dodgy TBH). The landscape has changed, but really recently that was not the case and many microbiologists viewed anything phage related as utter nonsense. I am happy to see more research happening.

Fomite 7y ago
Note that phage therapy was used and understood in the west well before the Soviet Union came into existence. It fell out of use because of the dangers from poorly purified phage preps, and because antibiotics showed up at about the same time those issues could have been fixed, and are a far more useful general purpose tool.
- chmod775 7y ago
  Do you have some sources for this? Because the Wikipedia article on phage therapy appears to directly contradict you. Directly after the paragraph about its discovery by an Englishman and a Frenchman: > A Georgian, George Eliava, was making similar discoveries. He travelled to the Pasteur Institute in Paris where he met d'Hérelle, and in 1923 he founded the Eliava Institute in Tbilisi, Georgia, devoted to the development of phage therapy. Georgia was part of the USSR at the time. It appears to be the first reference to any actual therapy. In any case it's a pretty tight schedule from the discovery of bacterophages in 1915/1917 to the formation of the USSR in 1922. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy Edit: Found something here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3442826/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3442826/ > From its first field trials as a prophylactic against avian typhosis (Salmonella gallinarum) in rural France in 1919 [...] I'm gonna file that under kinda, but not really. Something more in Félix d'Herelle's biography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_d%27Herelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_d%27Herelle > The first patient was healed of dysentery using phage therapy in August 1919. Many more followed. At the time, none, not even d'Hérelle, knew exactly what a phage was.
  - Fomite 7y ago
    Source: Infectious disease epidemiologist who has been interested in phage research for two decades ;) But you will find on that same Wikipedia page an entry for d'Herelle, and if you follow that...as you note yourself, you get an animal trial in 1919 as well as a human trial. D'Herelle then heads to Indochina to work on Cholera, and he's awarded an honorary doctorate two years after the USSR is founded - along with one of the field's most prestigious medals. --- Is that a tight timeline? Yes. But the idea that "The West" ignored phages because it was some sort of Soviet pseudoscience is contrary to the historical record. The west abandoned phage therapy because unfiltered endotoxins made phage therapy dangerous, and until the modern era, antibiotics are pretty superior in nearly every respect.
    - chmod775 7y ago
      Took me a while to dig up an online source of his 1921 monograph on the subject. For the curious: https://archive.org/details/lebactriophages00hrgoog/page/n9/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/lebactriophages00hrgoog/page/n9/... (PDF etc. downloads are at the bottom right)
      - Fomite 7y ago
        If you're interested, Flemming's Nobel Prize speech transcript is here: https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2018/06/fleming-lecture.pdf https://www.nobelprize.org/uploads/2018/06/fleming-lecture.p... It's an excellent read.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - Fomite 7y ago
    What did happen because of the USSR is the institute in Georgia not abandoning phage research because they continued to have much more limited access to penicillin thanks to the Cold War.