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Building millions of electric cars and shipping them around the world is extremely energy intensive. Many countries where those cars are shipped to use fossil f
by lowii 7y ago
Building millions of electric cars and shipping them around the world is extremely energy intensive. Many countries where those cars are shipped to use fossil fuels as their main source of electricity too. Nothing about it is green or will "stop climate change", but it gives them good marketing.
- standardUser 7y agoMaking and distributing anything always requires energy. Making and distributing things that lead to fewer carbon emissions is the only way to slow climate change.
- ses1984 7y agoMaking and distributing fewer things could also slow climate change.
- literallycancer 7y agoMass suicides or nuking half the world's population would probably slow climate change too, but for some reason none of those is considered a reasonable solution.
- ses1984 7y agoYou really compared reducing production and consumption to mass suicide or nuclear war, ok.
- bathtub365 7y agoMass death is not equivalent to the idea of producing fewer products and reusing existing ones. Many approaches can be used at once and reuse is a legitimate one.
- xiphias2 7y agoActually from all technologies energy production has been the best predictor of number of people living on Earth, so I believe many people would die if those cars weren't distributed to save energy.
- ClumsyPilot 7y agoMost cars in the world can be replaced with public transport, which is 3 - 20 times more efficient, depending on mode of use.
- xiphias2 7y agoThe problem with that is that it's extremely political, it can't be done by a private company. For example when I was living in Switzerland I used public transport because I was lazy to use a car, as it's so much more hassle. I went to Mountain View, California to a business trip, and wanted to do the same thing (as I was used to public transport), and I couldn't even find a way to go to a supermarket, as the closest one to my corp apartment was 40 minutes walk away :( I decided to rent a car because the closest car rental was closer than a place to eat at...as a European it sounds crazy, but it's true.
- imtringued 7y agoThe goal of climate change mitigation is harm reduction. Your solution needlessly increases harm.
- Scarblac 7y agoNot the only way. Driving less is much more effective than switching to electric vehicles.
- imtringued 7y agoIncremental solutions are much easier to implement.
- njb311 7y agoTrue, but they run the risk of taking too long when there are targets in force that require more radical change. That said, what often happens is that incremental change reaches a tipping point where either the demand or supply side causes a step change.
- standardUser 7y agoRight, but for the remainder of our lifetimes there will be hundreds of millions of cars on the road. Nothing will change that. What we can change is the type of car we use, which requires the energy intensive process of building and distributing these cars.
- woodandsteel 7y agoBut if these electric vehicles were not built, then people would buy icev's instead that over their lifetime put 10 times as much co2 into the atmosphere. I am guessing you are someone who wants us to stay on fossil fuels forever, and are only pretending to care about the environment
- dang 7y agoPersonal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another comment is or you feel it is. Please don't post like this to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sowbug 7y agoYou seem to be concerned about climate change. Do you have a better idea than electric cars to address the problem?
- lowii 7y agoIt's a difficult problem for sure. But I don't think we'll ever come up with a truly "clean" personal vehicle like the cars we know today. I think the solution would have to be something like better, cleaner public transit, encouraging people to live in walking/biking distance from their work, encouraging remote work, and reducing car usage overall as much as possible. Electric cars are better than regular fossil fuel cars, yes. But the article talks about "stopping" climate change, not just making it slightly less bad.
- munk-a 7y agoI think this is a don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good scenario along with being a bit more generous with the hyperbole in articles. I think it's fair to read "stopping" climate change as taking substantial steps to begin addressing it.
- gaze 7y agoI think substantial here is debatable.
- gaze 7y agoBuild infrastructure for public transportation and bicycles and such things. Try to eliminate cars.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- zamalek 7y agoYou can't move food and goods with bicycles and public transportation.
- montalbano 7y agoThe CO2 output to build and ship the cars is amortised over the first few years of the car's use so unless the car is destroyed in a crash before that time, there is a significant net CO2 benefit. My supplier (United Kingdom based) provides 100% renewable electricity. I'm sure there are plenty of other countries (where Tesla is on sale) that can provide energy generated in a more efficient way than internal combustion. It isn't perfect but it's the lesser evil when compared to combustion engines.
- tonyedgecombe 7y agohttp://www.carboncounter.com http://www.carboncounter.com lets you play with various options. ICE vehicles only look better if you compare the smallest petrol vehicle to the largest EV.
- imtringued 7y agoI like how that graph limited the price per gallon to $6.5. A few years ago the price per gallon in Germany was higher than that. Today it is around $6.3.
- tonyedgecombe 7y agoYes, it would be nice to have a European version.
- Doxin 7y agoNot to mention that a big-ass power plant burning gas (or coal or some other fuel) is going to be wildly more efficient than the relatively tiny engine in your car. Economies of scale apply to CO2 output too, so running an electric car on not-green energy is still better than running an ICE car.
- londons_explore 7y ago'wildly more efficient' is probably an overestimate. The worst coal plants have about the same efficiency as a car engine, and the best natural gas plants have ~double the efficiency.
- apsec112 7y agoElectricity is rapidly switching over to renewable sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics Having an electric car fleet means that transportation will get greener "automatically", as the power grid switches over to wind and solar. Having a fossil fuel car fleet means you're screwed no matter what happens in the electricity sector. Having a smaller fossil fuel car fleet just means that you're screwed a little more slowly.
- weberc2 7y agoI would also expect that it’s easier to address the co2 output of a single coal plant than a million cars due to economies of scale. The solution space for internal combustion engines is constrained by size, weight, and serviceability which is less an issue for power plants. Note that this is not to say that we shouldn’t prefer green energy, only that it shouldn’t deter us from investing in electric cars.
- Iwan-Zotow 7y agocoal production is growing for the last three years
- Arnt 7y agoIs it indeed? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production needs an update then. Makes sense, though... Assuming that a coal plant's going to be hopelessly unprofitable the next time it needs maintenance, it does make a certain sense to use it harshly now and wear out every moving part.
- Iwan-Zotow 7y ago> Is it indeed? Sure, https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lignite/coal-production-data.html https://yearbook.enerdata.net/coal-lignite/coal-production-d... > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Production needs an update then. And I know of a brave man who could do it > Assuming that a coal plant's going to be hopelessly unprofitable the next time it needs maintenance How come? See no reason for that
- fenwick67 7y agoA whole lot of emissions in the US are from transportation. Electric cars can be part of a wider solution.
- graks 7y agoI really don’t like this take. You should consider the fact that an equivalent volume of fossil fuel vehicles would be shipped around the world if electric cars did not exist. The carbon cost of shipping can thus be cancelled out and it becomes clear that this is a massive step in the right direction.
- rococode 7y agoWhile it's true that electric cars still use tons of fossil fuels and the marketing can be misleading, I think the big picture goal is to simply have cars that can actually run on electricity. Generating electricity in an environmentally-friendly way is almost an entirely separate problem from using electricity to run things that used to not run on electricity. Electric cars try to solve the latter problem, and the hope is that the widespread existence of electric cars will make the transition to clean energy easier in the future.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoUsing fossil fuel generated electricity is still more efficient than drilling oil, cracking it into petrol, along with lubricant oil to stop your ICE seizing, driving it to a petrol station, filling your car and burning it at awful efficiency. Renewable sources of electricity are a huge improvement to be encouraged, but EVs running off fossil generated electricity are better than petrol or diesel ICE.