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German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add ne

German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation. Sure they change the shape of cars and add new leds and interior eye candy but that is not progress. Imo german cars are low quality and lack diversity, and same goes for most machinery made in that country. US, Japanese, South Korean or other EU made products can be of similar or higher quality. Germany has such an economic power because the EU is heavily biased towards its needs. Just have a walk around east Europe and you will see how it has become junkyard for german cars. Suddenly the environment doesnt matter. Furthermore Germany is pretty socialist, both corporate and personal and has plenty of ways to subsidise industries and prevent too much innovation from rocking the boat.

gdrulia 7y ago
Disclaimer: I'm from Lithuania, little eastern Europe country. There has been a lot of talk about eastern Europe being a junkyard for german cars (or old european cars in general) in recents times, not the least locally, especially by politicians trying to justify weird decisions. Most of the time one vital factor remains overlooked, people don't have money for anything else here. German cars are valued by most the people, whether that is deserved or not is a different question. There are plenty of mechanic shops for repairing those cars and cars itself are cheap. Public transport is mostly horrible, so a car is a must for most people. If a family has a budget of ~€1500 per month, how can you realistically choose anything else but an old imported car from western Europe (majority from germany).
- makomk 7y ago
  There's a lot of controversy about eastern Europe becoming a junkyard for old German cars because those cars produce lots of pollution that affects the health of everyone in the country, which is the whole reason Germany and the other rich European countries don't want them anymore. Also, to add insult to injury, not only is the EU not allowing countries to block imports of those old polluting cars, they simultaneously expect all EU countries to meet stringent limits on how much of the pollutants they pump out is present in the air of their cities.
  - jotm 7y ago
    > those cars produce lots of pollution They do tax it, that's why a 1000 Euro car from Germany costs twice that once registered (or more) :/
- mambojumbo 7y ago
  People cant afford buying cars made outside europe because they are heavily taxed. So instead the whole continent is polluted to prop up the german economy. When the rest of the continent needs propping, germany starts name calling and forcing there governments to tax people and businesses to death. Not to mention over regulation in the name of “safety” or “insert populist mantra” that are usually met by german companies and are a burden to most other economies. Germans wont buy Lithuanian products because those are “low quality” but they buy chinese. So instead of allowing the eu to deregulate, to relax “standards”, and to enable innovation, germany does the opposite so you, in lithuania, cant compete and always lag - therefore only live on a 1500 eur budget. Fortunately end of game for the eu is in sight and if your country stays democratic it will grow to afford more.
jonathanstrange 7y ago
I cannot agree with this assessment, because you're talking about a key industry from the 80s. Germany's strengths is not just in cars, but also in tangible b2b products that require a high degree of know-how and engineering. Southern Germany is plastered with such companies, they deliver products to the rest of the world you and I haven't even heard of unless you're working in some specific business. These companies are very competitive and innovative.
- kaybe 7y ago
  If you have a problem with a product and call them about it, sometimes you can talk to the people who designed and built it, it's quite nice. They will also work with you to build similar things not yet in their catalogue if you need them (sometimes inventing new processes on the way), even if you don't need a lot.
kensai 7y ago
No pun intended, dude, but I think you speak mambo jumbo... :D "German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation." Germany just surpassed again South Korea as the most innovative country. News are just three days old. Where do you base your own assessment? Did your BMW break down? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-breaks-korea-s-six-year-streak-as-most-innovative-nation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-b...
- moooo99 7y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm from Germany and work in the automotive industry I think he is partially right, at least when you define innovation as being mainly of digital nature. There have been lots of improvements on the mechanical side, cars have become a lot more efficient, and quieter (or louder if you prefer). But when it comes to making the cars smarter or even electric, there hasn't been a whole lot of innovation. Since connect everything is the major trend right now, people often consider innovation as being mainly digital. While digital technologies are a major infuence nowadays, the mechanical side should not be forgotten. But the German automakers seem to really struggle with software becoming a major influence in peoples car-buying decision. BMW started with its "Conntected Drive" services, but since then, they haven't made a whole lot of progress, just a lot of completely unrealistic concept cars. The same is for Mercedes, they started their MBUX project a few years ago and at first, it really looked promising. Now, when I'm sitting in my friends MBUX Mercedes, its just a infotainment system as stupid as any other one. Volkswagen made big promises with its upcoming VW I.D platform and IMHO, this is the biggest single step a German automaker took since I'm alive.
  - mambojumbo 7y ago
    Hackernews is one enormous echo chamber where people will naturally find reasons to prove their conformance to the norm. Your statement however matched what other people from germany told me. Also there is an almost regular post on HN about how self driving cars wont happen, usually coming from german carmakers. Those sound eerily identical to articles i used to read where they explained why electric cars wont ever happen, and so on. Making great drilling machines, construction machinery and maybe electronics is not innovation. The echo chamber doesnt understand such topics because its too busy trusting politica driven “innovation stats”. Perhaps they are the kind whom buy a new car because it has fancier leds as opposed to actual new tech.
jotm 7y ago
Well, it's a junkyard of German cars because they just last longer and are cheap to fix (parts are from in Germany/EU, too). Japanese cars are second, simply because the number of German cars is so high.

gdrulia 7y ago

Disclaimer: I'm from Lithuania, little eastern Europe country. There has been a lot of talk about eastern Europe being a junkyard for german cars (or old european cars in general) in recents times, not the least locally, especially by politicians trying to justify weird decisions. Most of the time one vital factor remains overlooked, people don't have money for anything else here. German cars are valued by most the people, whether that is deserved or not is a different question. There are plenty of mechanic shops for repairing those cars and cars itself are cheap. Public transport is mostly horrible, so a car is a must for most people. If a family has a budget of ~€1500 per month, how can you realistically choose anything else but an old imported car from western Europe (majority from germany).

makomk 7y ago
There's a lot of controversy about eastern Europe becoming a junkyard for old German cars because those cars produce lots of pollution that affects the health of everyone in the country, which is the whole reason Germany and the other rich European countries don't want them anymore. Also, to add insult to injury, not only is the EU not allowing countries to block imports of those old polluting cars, they simultaneously expect all EU countries to meet stringent limits on how much of the pollutants they pump out is present in the air of their cities.
- jotm 7y ago
  > those cars produce lots of pollution They do tax it, that's why a 1000 Euro car from Germany costs twice that once registered (or more) :/
mambojumbo 7y ago
People cant afford buying cars made outside europe because they are heavily taxed. So instead the whole continent is polluted to prop up the german economy. When the rest of the continent needs propping, germany starts name calling and forcing there governments to tax people and businesses to death. Not to mention over regulation in the name of “safety” or “insert populist mantra” that are usually met by german companies and are a burden to most other economies. Germans wont buy Lithuanian products because those are “low quality” but they buy chinese. So instead of allowing the eu to deregulate, to relax “standards”, and to enable innovation, germany does the opposite so you, in lithuania, cant compete and always lag - therefore only live on a 1500 eur budget. Fortunately end of game for the eu is in sight and if your country stays democratic it will grow to afford more.

jonathanstrange 7y ago

I cannot agree with this assessment, because you're talking about a key industry from the 80s. Germany's strengths is not just in cars, but also in tangible b2b products that require a high degree of know-how and engineering. Southern Germany is plastered with such companies, they deliver products to the rest of the world you and I haven't even heard of unless you're working in some specific business. These companies are very competitive and innovative.

kaybe 7y ago
If you have a problem with a product and call them about it, sometimes you can talk to the people who designed and built it, it's quite nice. They will also work with you to build similar things not yet in their catalogue if you need them (sometimes inventing new processes on the way), even if you don't need a lot.

kensai 7y ago

No pun intended, dude, but I think you speak mambo jumbo... :D "German products arent as high quality ad they used to be and most if them are pretty stale in terms of innovation." Germany just surpassed again South Korea as the most innovative country. News are just three days old. Where do you base your own assessment? Did your BMW break down? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-breaks-korea-s-six-year-streak-as-most-innovative-nation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-18/germany-b...

moooo99 7y ago
Disclaimer: I'm from Germany and work in the automotive industry I think he is partially right, at least when you define innovation as being mainly of digital nature. There have been lots of improvements on the mechanical side, cars have become a lot more efficient, and quieter (or louder if you prefer). But when it comes to making the cars smarter or even electric, there hasn't been a whole lot of innovation. Since connect everything is the major trend right now, people often consider innovation as being mainly digital. While digital technologies are a major infuence nowadays, the mechanical side should not be forgotten. But the German automakers seem to really struggle with software becoming a major influence in peoples car-buying decision. BMW started with its "Conntected Drive" services, but since then, they haven't made a whole lot of progress, just a lot of completely unrealistic concept cars. The same is for Mercedes, they started their MBUX project a few years ago and at first, it really looked promising. Now, when I'm sitting in my friends MBUX Mercedes, its just a infotainment system as stupid as any other one. Volkswagen made big promises with its upcoming VW I.D platform and IMHO, this is the biggest single step a German automaker took since I'm alive.
- mambojumbo 7y ago
  Hackernews is one enormous echo chamber where people will naturally find reasons to prove their conformance to the norm. Your statement however matched what other people from germany told me. Also there is an almost regular post on HN about how self driving cars wont happen, usually coming from german carmakers. Those sound eerily identical to articles i used to read where they explained why electric cars wont ever happen, and so on. Making great drilling machines, construction machinery and maybe electronics is not innovation. The echo chamber doesnt understand such topics because its too busy trusting politica driven “innovation stats”. Perhaps they are the kind whom buy a new car because it has fancier leds as opposed to actual new tech.

jotm 7y ago

Well, it's a junkyard of German cars because they just last longer and are cheap to fix (parts are from in Germany/EU, too). Japanese cars are second, simply because the number of German cars is so high.