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> Currently, my simplest definition is "any self-aware organism capable of predicting the future to some degree." Frogs and certainly embryos are not self-awar

> Currently, my simplest definition is "any self-aware organism capable of predicting the future to some degree." Frogs and certainly embryos are not self-aware. > I think we are rapidly getting to the point where we will be able to sustain ourselves effectively with non-animal foods in a way that will be more nutritious, more sustainable, and more environmentally friendly. Nothing more nutritious than animal foods. This is basic science and evolutionary truth. The only other alternative to fit your description is the environmentally ruinous vegan diet which is terrible for humans. > I want humankind to prosper longterm and I think our most immediate challenge to that is our violence towards each other and towards our environment; I want humankind to prosper as well. Look how virtuous, caring and good we both are. Aren't we great? The immediate danger is the messianic lunacy being spread by traditional media and social media. > If the majority of us adopted a view that intelligent life at all levels should be protected Sadly, I don't think you could convince those militant and violent vegans set on destroying as much intelligent plant life as possible. But maybe you, caring as you are, can single-handedly stop them. https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-in... http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-and-smell-and-respond http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170109-plants-can-see-hear-... If intelligent life must be protected then I guess we have to take dogs and cats from their owners since these animals require meat to be healthy ( for cats to live since they are obligate carnivores ). I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that trillions of animals are being killed and eaten by other animals every day. Also, the most environmentally friendly diet is the hunter-gatherer diet, which you in your immense wisdom probably reject in support of mass agriculture - the worst thing for the environment.

1e-9 7y ago
> Frogs and certainly embryos are not self-aware. The evidence indicates that frogs are most certainly self-aware[1]. Embryos are potential intelligent life. > Nothing more nutritious than animal foods. Maybe I was unclear. I believe we will create better alternatives. > Sadly, I don't think you could convince those militant and violent vegans set on destroying as much intelligent plant life as possible. While there are indications of a degree of plant intelligence and even some self-awareness, edible plants generally rely on being consumed in order to proliferate. I do think it is in our best interest to protect plant life though. > I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that trillions of animals are being killed and eaten by other animals every day. I have no problem with animals eating each other. > Also, the most environmentally friendly diet is the hunter-gatherer diet, I agree. Unfortunately, it's not practical for 8 billion people to forage this earth. Also, it doesn't leave much time for advancing ourselves. [1] https://jeb.biologists.org/content/222/11/jeb197467 https://jeb.biologists.org/content/222/11/jeb197467
schwartzworld 7y ago
> the environmentally ruinous vegan diet Uh, what? you think eating veg instead of meat is bad for the environment? you're wrong. > nothing is more nutritious than animal foods look, I like meat, but this is expicitly wrong, and it doesn't even really make sense.
- elfexec 7y ago
  > Uh, what? you think eating veg instead of meat is bad for the environment? you're wrong. Another vegan who knows nothing about farming. But then again, that's probably why are you are vegan. > look, I like meat, but this is expicitly wrong, and it doesn't even really make sense. You like meat but you sound like a vegan activist regurgitating the same trite nonsense all over social media. So I believe you 100%. It doesn't make sense? There is a reason why herbivores have to eat 24/7. There is a reason why carnivores don't. There is a reason why omnivores don't. Meat is nutrient dense. Humans can survive entirely on their locally sourced animals. Humans cannot survive on locally sourced vegetation. Omnivore diet = optimal diet for humans. Most human societies are omnivore. Carnivore diet = suboptimal diet for humans because accessing meat is difficult. The only carnivore societies I know of are the groups of inuit who live on the tundra where vegetation are hard to come by. Vegan diet = worst diet for humans. No human vegan society has ever existed in history because it would be suicide. Prior to oil/coal fueled globalism, a vegan diet was impossible. Nobody on earth can survive on a vegan diet from local sources and without vitamins. And even if they survive, they are living suboptimally. Brain function and muscle mass deteriorates, you have gastronomical problems because humans weren't designed to be herbivores, your libido disappears, you get irritable and irrational, you are sick with parasites since most parasites/eggs/etc come from feces on plants, etc. If you are an intelligent and sane human being, the omnivore diet is what you want. A bit of very nutritious meat with a lot of unnutritious veggies to balance out your diet. If you care about the environment, the omnivore diet is what you want.

1e-9 7y ago

> Frogs and certainly embryos are not self-aware. The evidence indicates that frogs are most certainly self-aware[1]. Embryos are potential intelligent life. > Nothing more nutritious than animal foods. Maybe I was unclear. I believe we will create better alternatives. > Sadly, I don't think you could convince those militant and violent vegans set on destroying as much intelligent plant life as possible. While there are indications of a degree of plant intelligence and even some self-awareness, edible plants generally rely on being consumed in order to proliferate. I do think it is in our best interest to protect plant life though. > I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that trillions of animals are being killed and eaten by other animals every day. I have no problem with animals eating each other. > Also, the most environmentally friendly diet is the hunter-gatherer diet, I agree. Unfortunately, it's not practical for 8 billion people to forage this earth. Also, it doesn't leave much time for advancing ourselves. [1] https://jeb.biologists.org/content/222/11/jeb197467 https://jeb.biologists.org/content/222/11/jeb197467

schwartzworld 7y ago

> the environmentally ruinous vegan diet Uh, what? you think eating veg instead of meat is bad for the environment? you're wrong. > nothing is more nutritious than animal foods look, I like meat, but this is expicitly wrong, and it doesn't even really make sense.

elfexec 7y ago
> Uh, what? you think eating veg instead of meat is bad for the environment? you're wrong. Another vegan who knows nothing about farming. But then again, that's probably why are you are vegan. > look, I like meat, but this is expicitly wrong, and it doesn't even really make sense. You like meat but you sound like a vegan activist regurgitating the same trite nonsense all over social media. So I believe you 100%. It doesn't make sense? There is a reason why herbivores have to eat 24/7. There is a reason why carnivores don't. There is a reason why omnivores don't. Meat is nutrient dense. Humans can survive entirely on their locally sourced animals. Humans cannot survive on locally sourced vegetation. Omnivore diet = optimal diet for humans. Most human societies are omnivore. Carnivore diet = suboptimal diet for humans because accessing meat is difficult. The only carnivore societies I know of are the groups of inuit who live on the tundra where vegetation are hard to come by. Vegan diet = worst diet for humans. No human vegan society has ever existed in history because it would be suicide. Prior to oil/coal fueled globalism, a vegan diet was impossible. Nobody on earth can survive on a vegan diet from local sources and without vitamins. And even if they survive, they are living suboptimally. Brain function and muscle mass deteriorates, you have gastronomical problems because humans weren't designed to be herbivores, your libido disappears, you get irritable and irrational, you are sick with parasites since most parasites/eggs/etc come from feces on plants, etc. If you are an intelligent and sane human being, the omnivore diet is what you want. A bit of very nutritious meat with a lot of unnutritious veggies to balance out your diet. If you care about the environment, the omnivore diet is what you want.