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I think having subtitles in your native language can hurt learning because it tends to be easier to just follow the subtitle than actually trying to understand

I think having subtitles in your native language can hurt learning because it tends to be easier to just follow the subtitle than actually trying to understand the target language. You can't read both at the same time. But I agree that Netflix is a great resource for learning a foreign language. I went from zero to being able to understand a normal TV show in the target language in one year, mostly by watching children's videos in YouTube and Netflix. In my opinion, what's more important is (1) the ability to order/group videos by simplicity after filtering it by target language (even children shows vary a lot in difficulty and for learning it's very important to choose the right difficulty for you) and probably (2) the ability to slow down the playback speed like YouTube.

verganileonardo 7y ago
Which language did you learn?
- hrasyid 7y ago
  Spanish
  - ta999999171 7y ago
    Most effective Netflix kids/otherwise shows for this, in your opinion? TIA
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      The shows that interest you. The ones you would actually watch. I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults. It sure does for me. Also start reading books asap. I spent way too long watching dub+sub'ed Netflix in my target language. Wish I'd tried reading young-adult books sooner. If you're going to be pausing on every subtitle frame to read it, you might as well try books.
      - hrasyid 7y ago
        >> I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults. Not necessarily. Maybe if you understand everything, they become boring, but to me watching an interesting enough show where you understand 50%-80% of the dialog and try to understand the rest by context is kind of fun.
    - hrasyid 7y ago
      It depends on your level. I'm a big fan of Peppa Pig, because I think it's funny/entertaining enough for adults who understand >50% of what's being said. But before you reach that level, you need to watch something simpler. I'd suggest "Superbeginner" and "Beginner" videos in a YouTube channel called Dreaming Spanish
axaxs 7y ago
I agree. That said, my wife subtitles every movie which normally I don't care about, except the subtitles are -wrong-. I don't know why they do that, it seems rather innocent, but drives me crazy as an English speaker. It's usually something not even so consequential..off the top of my head like replacing 'Time for dinner' with 'Time for supper'. Not an exact example, but it's usually along these lines.
- dilap 7y ago
  That drives me crazy too! Some shows are pretty faithful, but others are way off. The otherwise-wonderful Cuatro Estaciones en la Habana is especially bad -- it replaces all the local Cuban slang w/ standard Spanish, e.g., they'll subtitle imbécil when the dialog is comemierda. Why would you do that?! Also strongly agree w/ GP; in my experience, you've got to hide the english to learn anything. Otherwise your brain isn't working in the target language.
- arkitaip 7y ago
  This has been an issue with Netflix for years. It's almost as if the translators of movie or TV series don't have access to the videos themselves because every other sentence is slightly wrong.
- sk0g 7y ago
  Are the shows you're watching dubbed? Was recently watching How to Sell Drugs Online (Fast), which is a German show originally, and the subtitles were off in a similar way. Drove me nuts! I ended up switching the audio language to German and watching it with English subtitles, was a miles better experience for me.
  - axaxs 7y ago
    Nope, original English shows. What's frustrating is that my wife uses subtitles for learning how words are spelled, but the words spoken aren't the same as the ones written!
- leokennis 7y ago
  It was said in a major Dutch newspaper last year that Netflix seriously underpays/over pressures the translators: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/06/07/ondertitelaars-voelen-zich-uitgeknepen-door-netflix-a3963027 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/06/07/ondertitelaars-voelen-z... Basically in “the good old days” translating/subtitling was a serious job for serious money. But it has been turned into almost a “work from home, gig economy Mechanical Turk” thing. And the quality obviously suffers.
remarkEon 7y ago
Just tried it out with a German show I watch. I think the issue is that the native language subtitles (English for me) can have subtly different literal translations than what might be on the screen in the original language. So while the English subtitles can convey the same meaning, the word-for-word translation is going to be off. This is fine, really, and any language learner is probably already aware of this. Otherwise, the implementation looks great. Easy, simple to use and intuitive controls. The running list of subtitles on the right is nice. To your point about playback speed, maybe it's just me but I like the challenge of trying to keep up with the foreign language and it helps with developing my listening skills (I also really don't want to watch children's shows). I think the ability to toggle the Auto-pause more or less solves this problem, at least for me. Would still like a Firefox extension though. This will be the only instance in which I use Chrome. Edit: Hmm reading the other comments here, maybe this is actually a problem with the translation itself? If non-native speakers are noticing instances where it's off it seems there might be a quality control issue.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- scipio_oregonus 7y ago
  Been using this extension for a bit now. Turn on machine translations. The default translations are translating the meaning but not word by word. The machine translations are the latter. Which is way better for learning, which is why I assume it's a premium feature.
gield 7y ago
I respectfully disagree, based on anecdotes. The Dutch-speaking part of Belgium subtitles everything, except for shows meant for kids <8 years old. The French-speaking part on the other hand dubs everything, even interviews in the news. Guess which part of country sucks at speaking English.
- hrasyid 7y ago
  My point is you need to watch the target language audio with no subtitle in your language. If the choice is English-audio + Dutch-subtitle vs French-audio only, then of course there is no advantage to the second group. Try restricting the French-speaking kids to watch shows with English audio only.

verganileonardo 7y ago

Which language did you learn?

hrasyid 7y ago
Spanish
- ta999999171 7y ago
  Most effective Netflix kids/otherwise shows for this, in your opinion? TIA
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    The shows that interest you. The ones you would actually watch. I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults. It sure does for me. Also start reading books asap. I spent way too long watching dub+sub'ed Netflix in my target language. Wish I'd tried reading young-adult books sooner. If you're going to be pausing on every subtitle frame to read it, you might as well try books.
    - hrasyid 7y ago
      >> I imagine this rules out kids shows for most adults. Not necessarily. Maybe if you understand everything, they become boring, but to me watching an interesting enough show where you understand 50%-80% of the dialog and try to understand the rest by context is kind of fun.
  - hrasyid 7y ago
    It depends on your level. I'm a big fan of Peppa Pig, because I think it's funny/entertaining enough for adults who understand >50% of what's being said. But before you reach that level, you need to watch something simpler. I'd suggest "Superbeginner" and "Beginner" videos in a YouTube channel called Dreaming Spanish

axaxs 7y ago

I agree. That said, my wife subtitles every movie which normally I don't care about, except the subtitles are -wrong-. I don't know why they do that, it seems rather innocent, but drives me crazy as an English speaker. It's usually something not even so consequential..off the top of my head like replacing 'Time for dinner' with 'Time for supper'. Not an exact example, but it's usually along these lines.

dilap 7y ago
That drives me crazy too! Some shows are pretty faithful, but others are way off. The otherwise-wonderful Cuatro Estaciones en la Habana is especially bad -- it replaces all the local Cuban slang w/ standard Spanish, e.g., they'll subtitle imbécil when the dialog is comemierda. Why would you do that?! Also strongly agree w/ GP; in my experience, you've got to hide the english to learn anything. Otherwise your brain isn't working in the target language.
arkitaip 7y ago
This has been an issue with Netflix for years. It's almost as if the translators of movie or TV series don't have access to the videos themselves because every other sentence is slightly wrong.
sk0g 7y ago
Are the shows you're watching dubbed? Was recently watching How to Sell Drugs Online (Fast), which is a German show originally, and the subtitles were off in a similar way. Drove me nuts! I ended up switching the audio language to German and watching it with English subtitles, was a miles better experience for me.
- axaxs 7y ago
  Nope, original English shows. What's frustrating is that my wife uses subtitles for learning how words are spelled, but the words spoken aren't the same as the ones written!
leokennis 7y ago
It was said in a major Dutch newspaper last year that Netflix seriously underpays/over pressures the translators: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/06/07/ondertitelaars-voelen-zich-uitgeknepen-door-netflix-a3963027 https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/06/07/ondertitelaars-voelen-z... Basically in “the good old days” translating/subtitling was a serious job for serious money. But it has been turned into almost a “work from home, gig economy Mechanical Turk” thing. And the quality obviously suffers.

remarkEon 7y ago

Just tried it out with a German show I watch. I think the issue is that the native language subtitles (English for me) can have subtly different literal translations than what might be on the screen in the original language. So while the English subtitles can convey the same meaning, the word-for-word translation is going to be off. This is fine, really, and any language learner is probably already aware of this. Otherwise, the implementation looks great. Easy, simple to use and intuitive controls. The running list of subtitles on the right is nice. To your point about playback speed, maybe it's just me but I like the challenge of trying to keep up with the foreign language and it helps with developing my listening skills (I also really don't want to watch children's shows). I think the ability to toggle the Auto-pause more or less solves this problem, at least for me. Would still like a Firefox extension though. This will be the only instance in which I use Chrome. Edit: Hmm reading the other comments here, maybe this is actually a problem with the translation itself? If non-native speakers are noticing instances where it's off it seems there might be a quality control issue.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
scipio_oregonus 7y ago
Been using this extension for a bit now. Turn on machine translations. The default translations are translating the meaning but not word by word. The machine translations are the latter. Which is way better for learning, which is why I assume it's a premium feature.

gield 7y ago

I respectfully disagree, based on anecdotes. The Dutch-speaking part of Belgium subtitles everything, except for shows meant for kids <8 years old. The French-speaking part on the other hand dubs everything, even interviews in the news. Guess which part of country sucks at speaking English.

hrasyid 7y ago
My point is you need to watch the target language audio with no subtitle in your language. If the choice is English-audio + Dutch-subtitle vs French-audio only, then of course there is no advantage to the second group. Try restricting the French-speaking kids to watch shows with English audio only.