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Marvin Minsky was accused of assaulting Virgina Guiffre. Virginia had been trafficked by Epstein starting when she was 15. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019

Marvin Minsky was accused of assaulting Virgina Guiffre. Virginia had been trafficked by Epstein starting when she was 15. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/new-details-in-unsealed-jeffrey-epstein-documents https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/new-details-in-unsea... > Giuffre also alleges Epstein and Maxwell told her to have sex with former New Mexico governor Bill Richardson; former Democratic Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell; the late MIT computer scientist Marvin Minsky; and MC2 model agency cofounder Jean Luc Brunel, as well as an unnamed “prince,” “foreign president,” and owner of “a French hotel chain.” Giuffre previously alleged she had been forced by Epstein and Maxwell to have sex with lawyer Alan Dershowitz and Britain’s Prince Andrew.

gumby 7y ago
I know several people who were at that island and have discussed this event; one even told me that he remembered it because Marvin came over to him and said "this woman just offered to have sex with me." Also Gloria, his wife, was there, though I haven't asked her about it (and wouldn't). This seems believable to me. OTOH I did read Giuffre's deposition and she says not just that she was told by Epstein to proposition various people but that it happened. I find that very hard to believe having known him so long, but she made that statement under oath. Also I'm not sure Marvin was famous enough to be worth making up a story about (as opposed to, say, a famous heir to a throne).
- malvosenior 7y ago
  Did any of the people you know regret going there? I know I would be able to do it. Even if they didn't participate, I would think being in an environment like that would make most people really uncomfortable.
  - thatsenough 7y ago
    > I know I would be able to do it. Freudian slip?
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      Typo
- cjbprime 7y ago
  I don't think it's correct that the deposition says that sex happened -- I'd greatly appreciate a reference to that if you have one. The deposition contains questions like "Where were you and where was Ms. Maxwell when she directed you to go have sex with Marvin Minsky?", which seem to focus entirely on Maxwell's behavior rather than telling us what Minsky's response was. (For the record I think Minsky's conduct -- in continuing to associate with Epstein after being offered sex by a young woman on Epstein's private island and then continuing to host conferences there after Epstein's conviction -- is terrible either way, but agreeing on which facts are actually known seems important.)
  - gumby 7y ago
    Deposition page 204 line 13 (marginally ambiguous). My point about Marvin not being super famous is if I were making something up I'd make it up about famous people. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZOEKwoBnDKUFI1hLbFJH5nsUFxrmNhs/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZOEKwoBnDKUFI1hLbFJH5nsUFx...
    - cjbprime 7y ago
      Could you check the page? Neither 204 of the PDF nor 204 in red at the top seems to be a deposition text page. I'm not imagining that Giuffre made anything up. I'm just trying to work out whether, after she propositioned Minsky as she was directed to by Maxwell (from the deposition, as well as Minsky's own account to other attendees), he accepted.
      - gumby 7y ago
        Page labeled in black in its footer
        cjbprime 7y ago
        Thanks, that looks like the one I was quoting. I'm surprised you say "she says not just that she was told by Epstein to proposition various people but that it happened" from that text, unless maybe by "it" you just mean the proposition..? I'd agree that Minsky agreeing to the proposition would be implied by those sentences in normal conversation, but depositions have carefully constructed and precise questions and answers, so that leaves me unsure. (Again, I'm not trying to offer a strong defense of Minsky here or claim that any part of the deposition isn't true.)
gowld 7y ago
Why does that say "Epstein and Maxwell told her to have sex with" and not "had sex with, as ordered by Epstein and Maxwell" ? Did Giuffre say that the sex happened?
- malvosenior 7y ago
  Yes, she did claim that. Here's a better link: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article233728717.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article233728717.html > In the lawsuit, Giuffre claimed she was forced to have sex with a “large amount of people,” some of whom had not previously been named, including former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, former U.S. Senator George Mitchell, Hyatt hotels magnate Tom Pritzker, hedge fund manager Glenn Dubin, the late Massachusetts Institute of Technology scientist Marvin Minsky, modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel, Dershowitz, Prince Andrew, another unnamed prince, plus “a well-known Prime Minister.”
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    That's the Miami Herald misunderstanding the deposition, I believe. The actual deposition talks about her being directed to offer sex to these people, but doesn't say explicitly whether they accepted it. Example quote from the deposition: "Where were you and where was Ms. Maxwell when she directed you to go have sex with Marvin Minsky?"

gumby 7y ago

I know several people who were at that island and have discussed this event; one even told me that he remembered it because Marvin came over to him and said "this woman just offered to have sex with me." Also Gloria, his wife, was there, though I haven't asked her about it (and wouldn't). This seems believable to me. OTOH I did read Giuffre's deposition and she says not just that she was told by Epstein to proposition various people but that it happened. I find that very hard to believe having known him so long, but she made that statement under oath. Also I'm not sure Marvin was famous enough to be worth making up a story about (as opposed to, say, a famous heir to a throne).

malvosenior 7y ago
Did any of the people you know regret going there? I know I would be able to do it. Even if they didn't participate, I would think being in an environment like that would make most people really uncomfortable.
- thatsenough 7y ago
  > I know I would be able to do it. Freudian slip?
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Typo
cjbprime 7y ago
I don't think it's correct that the deposition says that sex happened -- I'd greatly appreciate a reference to that if you have one. The deposition contains questions like "Where were you and where was Ms. Maxwell when she directed you to go have sex with Marvin Minsky?", which seem to focus entirely on Maxwell's behavior rather than telling us what Minsky's response was. (For the record I think Minsky's conduct -- in continuing to associate with Epstein after being offered sex by a young woman on Epstein's private island and then continuing to host conferences there after Epstein's conviction -- is terrible either way, but agreeing on which facts are actually known seems important.)
- gumby 7y ago
  Deposition page 204 line 13 (marginally ambiguous). My point about Marvin not being super famous is if I were making something up I'd make it up about famous people. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZOEKwoBnDKUFI1hLbFJH5nsUFxrmNhs/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ZOEKwoBnDKUFI1hLbFJH5nsUFx...
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    Could you check the page? Neither 204 of the PDF nor 204 in red at the top seems to be a deposition text page. I'm not imagining that Giuffre made anything up. I'm just trying to work out whether, after she propositioned Minsky as she was directed to by Maxwell (from the deposition, as well as Minsky's own account to other attendees), he accepted.
    - gumby 7y ago
      Page labeled in black in its footer
      - cjbprime 7y ago
        Thanks, that looks like the one I was quoting. I'm surprised you say "she says not just that she was told by Epstein to proposition various people but that it happened" from that text, unless maybe by "it" you just mean the proposition..? I'd agree that Minsky agreeing to the proposition would be implied by those sentences in normal conversation, but depositions have carefully constructed and precise questions and answers, so that leaves me unsure. (Again, I'm not trying to offer a strong defense of Minsky here or claim that any part of the deposition isn't true.)

gowld 7y ago

Why does that say "Epstein and Maxwell told her to have sex with" and not "had sex with, as ordered by Epstein and Maxwell" ? Did Giuffre say that the sex happened?

malvosenior 7y ago
Yes, she did claim that. Here's a better link: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article233728717.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article233728717.html > In the lawsuit, Giuffre claimed she was forced to have sex with a “large amount of people,” some of whom had not previously been named, including former New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, former U.S. Senator George Mitchell, Hyatt hotels magnate Tom Pritzker, hedge fund manager Glenn Dubin, the late Massachusetts Institute of Technology scientist Marvin Minsky, modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel, Dershowitz, Prince Andrew, another unnamed prince, plus “a well-known Prime Minister.”
- cjbprime 7y ago
  That's the Miami Herald misunderstanding the deposition, I believe. The actual deposition talks about her being directed to offer sex to these people, but doesn't say explicitly whether they accepted it. Example quote from the deposition: "Where were you and where was Ms. Maxwell when she directed you to go have sex with Marvin Minsky?"