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Lawns are aesthetically pleasing to humans. It has been widely observed that humans, having adapted to life in the African savannah, have a tendency to turn ev

Lawns are aesthetically pleasing to humans. It has been widely observed that humans, having adapted to life in the African savannah, have a tendency to turn everything into an idealised version of their natural habitat. Regents Park, or your local golf course, is like a superstimulus version of the nicer parts of prehistoric Kenya. Lots of nice green grass; not too long, indicating grazing animals nearby. Trees scattered around for shade, but not too many. A bunch of clearly visible landmarks for easy navigation. Flowers, indicating... fruit maybe? I’m not sure. Either way, it’s exactly the sort of environment that an omnivorous savannah ape ought to prefer over any other. Anyway, I like lawns because my genes tell me to like lawns.

onion2k 7y ago
Presumably you also live in a cave and hunt animals for your dinner. Meanwhile the rest of us have realised we can actually ignore our primal instincts that serve no beneficial purpose and use our brains to figure out something better.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  Pretty much everything you find aesthetically pleasing is a primal instinct. The high-and-mighty-ness of this comment really beggars belief. I hope that somebody like yourself could confidently say you’ve never wasted your time on something frivolous like companionship or sexual needs.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    Saying we like lawns because our cave-dwelling ancestors saw them as good hunting ground is fine, but to extend that to saying that's a reason why we should have them is not. We can ignore that particular primal urge if giving up lawns is good for the environment. The same goes for every other "primal instinct" - we've evolved to the point where we can make a conscious decision about what we do regardless of what our cave-dwelling ancestors might have thought. We can, and do, rise above our evolutionary biology if it suits us. It's a good thing too, or violence and rape would be far more prevalent.
    - vosper 7y ago
      > Saying we like lawns because our cave-dwelling ancestors saw them as good hunting ground is fine, but to extend that to saying that's a reason why we should have them is not. I don't see this claim in the comment you originally replied to. The poster gave a theory as to why people like lawns, they did not say that this means we should have them.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        I don't either. That claim was made by AmericanChopper when he stated "I hope that somebody like yourself could confidently say you’ve never wasted your time on something frivolous like companionship or sexual needs." when we were talking about lawns. The "something frivolous" bit was sarcasm. He was effectively saying we need lawns in the same way we need sex - because our primitive cave brains tell us they're like the a perfect savannah. I was saying that even if that's true (which is a dubious claim) we can ignore that urge if we want to.
    - swebs 7y ago
      You can't consciously decide what you find visually appealing.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        No, but you can consciously decide whether or not to act on finding something appealing. That's the point here - our ancient evolutionary instincts are real, but we have also evolved the ability to think rationally so we can ignore those urges if we want to. Consequently whenever someone argues "we do that because we evolved from cave people" the correct response is "but we're not cave people any more, and why are you ignoring the thousands of years of evolution that have happens since we left the caves?"
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      Well the simple explanation of “because I like it” is a good enough reason to have something. If you look at it analytically enough, a lot of the things we end up liking can be traced back to some primitive leftovers of our evolution as a species, and may otherwise appear to be quite irrational. You obviously can’t act on every impulse you have, so the list of irrational resource allocation decisions any particular person makes will reflect their own personal priorities. But pretending you’re somehow above this is just downright absurd. Perhaps the aesthetic pleasures of keeping a nice green lawn don’t matter very much to you personally, but your life is most certainly full of your own personal collection of frivolous and irrational decisions that you made purely for your own satisfaction.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Hmm. Average golf course is green monoculture that is a blight on landscape and eyesight, as are most lawns. It's the close cutting and grass only. Parks on the other hand have rougher grass in sensible combination with large expanses of trees, maybe a river or lake, flowers, paths, benches. A little oasis of beauty and calm in the ugly, angular city. To reset my mind I take trees (that often come with some wild meadow and grass), or forest every time. A neatly trimmed lawn is for sports pitches.
otabdeveloper2 7y ago
> Lawns are aesthetically pleasing to humans. Citation needed. My anecdotal experience doesn't agree. > It has been widely observed... Really? By who? > ...that humans, having adapted to life in the African savannah, Citation, again, needed. As far as I know, practically no ancient hominid artifacts have been found in the 'African savannah'. > ...have a tendency to turn everything into an idealised version of their natural habitat. Except that lawns are absolutely nothing at all like an 'African savannah'. And the fact that the largest part of humanity (India, China) live in habitats that resemble ant hills more than they do a savanna.
fenwick67 7y ago
Do you have anything to back this up or is this just 100% conjecture by you?

onion2k 7y ago

Presumably you also live in a cave and hunt animals for your dinner. Meanwhile the rest of us have realised we can actually ignore our primal instincts that serve no beneficial purpose and use our brains to figure out something better.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
Pretty much everything you find aesthetically pleasing is a primal instinct. The high-and-mighty-ness of this comment really beggars belief. I hope that somebody like yourself could confidently say you’ve never wasted your time on something frivolous like companionship or sexual needs.
- onion2k 7y ago
  Saying we like lawns because our cave-dwelling ancestors saw them as good hunting ground is fine, but to extend that to saying that's a reason why we should have them is not. We can ignore that particular primal urge if giving up lawns is good for the environment. The same goes for every other "primal instinct" - we've evolved to the point where we can make a conscious decision about what we do regardless of what our cave-dwelling ancestors might have thought. We can, and do, rise above our evolutionary biology if it suits us. It's a good thing too, or violence and rape would be far more prevalent.
  - vosper 7y ago
    > Saying we like lawns because our cave-dwelling ancestors saw them as good hunting ground is fine, but to extend that to saying that's a reason why we should have them is not. I don't see this claim in the comment you originally replied to. The poster gave a theory as to why people like lawns, they did not say that this means we should have them.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      I don't either. That claim was made by AmericanChopper when he stated "I hope that somebody like yourself could confidently say you’ve never wasted your time on something frivolous like companionship or sexual needs." when we were talking about lawns. The "something frivolous" bit was sarcasm. He was effectively saying we need lawns in the same way we need sex - because our primitive cave brains tell us they're like the a perfect savannah. I was saying that even if that's true (which is a dubious claim) we can ignore that urge if we want to.
  - swebs 7y ago
    You can't consciously decide what you find visually appealing.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      No, but you can consciously decide whether or not to act on finding something appealing. That's the point here - our ancient evolutionary instincts are real, but we have also evolved the ability to think rationally so we can ignore those urges if we want to. Consequently whenever someone argues "we do that because we evolved from cave people" the correct response is "but we're not cave people any more, and why are you ignoring the thousands of years of evolution that have happens since we left the caves?"
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    Well the simple explanation of “because I like it” is a good enough reason to have something. If you look at it analytically enough, a lot of the things we end up liking can be traced back to some primitive leftovers of our evolution as a species, and may otherwise appear to be quite irrational. You obviously can’t act on every impulse you have, so the list of irrational resource allocation decisions any particular person makes will reflect their own personal priorities. But pretending you’re somehow above this is just downright absurd. Perhaps the aesthetic pleasures of keeping a nice green lawn don’t matter very much to you personally, but your life is most certainly full of your own personal collection of frivolous and irrational decisions that you made purely for your own satisfaction.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Hmm. Average golf course is green monoculture that is a blight on landscape and eyesight, as are most lawns. It's the close cutting and grass only. Parks on the other hand have rougher grass in sensible combination with large expanses of trees, maybe a river or lake, flowers, paths, benches. A little oasis of beauty and calm in the ugly, angular city. To reset my mind I take trees (that often come with some wild meadow and grass), or forest every time. A neatly trimmed lawn is for sports pitches.

otabdeveloper2 7y ago

> Lawns are aesthetically pleasing to humans. Citation needed. My anecdotal experience doesn't agree. > It has been widely observed... Really? By who? > ...that humans, having adapted to life in the African savannah, Citation, again, needed. As far as I know, practically no ancient hominid artifacts have been found in the 'African savannah'. > ...have a tendency to turn everything into an idealised version of their natural habitat. Except that lawns are absolutely nothing at all like an 'African savannah'. And the fact that the largest part of humanity (India, China) live in habitats that resemble ant hills more than they do a savanna.

fenwick67 7y ago

Do you have anything to back this up or is this just 100% conjecture by you?