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> the journalists present this story as Russia's voluntary step towards isolating itself from the global internet. I am not sure why. Some potential benefits t

> the journalists present this story as Russia's voluntary step towards isolating itself from the global internet. I am not sure why. Some potential benefits to Russia: 1. Thwart cyber attacks 2. Control information 3. Halt foreign online payments There are of course downsides, but I think the original premise was security in the event of war / aggression.

3pt14159 7y ago
> 1. Thwart cyber attacks By whom? State actors can just launch attacks from computers that have both a Russian internet link and a link up to a internet providing satellite, no?
- everdev 7y ago
  No security is full proof, but they call it "hardening the target" when you reduce your attack surface.
  - staticautomatic 7y ago
    I think the word you're looking for is "foolproof"
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    Of course security is an obvious pretense for control. The way you actually reduce attack surface is to take the critical pieces off of it and minimize the paths to be watched, not the whole system. That would be like ensuring it is possible to close off all of the highways into Washington DC to response time for the three federal branches. If it was actually that damn important they would make and use secure tunnels. The only added benefit is an excuse to shut out protesters. Not to mention mere independence isn't everything for system functionalities. Going to muscle powered factories to remove logistical dependence on power would be an obviously stupid move for example because the performance is so much worse. It is "selling ceramic knives that cannot be sharpened as never needing it" marketing deception of trying to cast a flaw as a strength.
    - irascible 7y ago
      This is the equivalent of putting on armor before going to war.
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      > Of course security is an obvious pretense for control. Russia doesn't need pretense for control.
    - seventhtiger 7y ago
      I don't think this is such an effective control if you mean controlling the population. Usually when countries shut down the Internet it's to prevent protestors from organizing rather than disconnecting them from the outside world. This doesn't give them additional leverage considering the Russian government's current power. This is actually most useful for security. At least if you are attacked your national network will survive.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  true but things like DDOS are a lot harder when you are forced to rely on nodes within the country that internal police can shut down.
azangru 7y ago
> but I think the original premise was security in the event of war / aggression. That was my understanding as well.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  which is easy to declare without processes as needed, such as during social unrest. . ..
  - azangru 7y ago
    Oh, during a social unrest in Egypt in 2011 the government famously shut down the internet. Didn't help them much :-) I think the main concern of the Russian internet users is to get isolated from the rest of the internet indefinitely during peace time, in a way of China or North Korea. I am not sure we are seeing signs that the Russian government intends to go that far yet.
    - FpUser 7y ago
      When all that mess with Russia/Ukraine had started the West was openly contemplating disconnecting Russia from the international payment services. That had lead Russia to develop it's own. The Internet is a vital infrastructure element. Leaving the risk of potential disruption to some US congressmen's whims is not a very wise choice. Of course it can be used with bad intentions as well but so can anything else. I think I've already mentioned this in my older post and it was downvoted eagerly.
      - conistonwater 7y ago
        > the West was openly contemplating disconnecting Russia from the international payment services This is a claim made by the Russian government with little actual support as far as I know. It comes up every once in a while when the issue is mentioned, and is usually uncritically accepted.
        7y ago
viraptor 7y ago
> 3. Halt foreign online payments That is extremely unlikely to happen. Payments, banking, investment will be always connected, or placed abroad in the required way. At least for important enough transactions - probably not Amazon, but stock trades...
- capdeck 7y ago
  >> 3. Halt foreign online payments > That is extremely unlikely to happen. That's what very much has already happened. Visa and MasterCard pulled their services a few years ago after another set of US sanctions. Also, if you are a business and using SWIFT to transact - US has the final say what you can and can not do. So now Russia has it's own payment card system MiR and working with China, India and even Iran on alternative to SWIFT. I think it was a mistake for US to retract payment services. A smaller country may be severely affected by it indeed, but not a country of the size of Russia, China or India. Now if payment networks were pulled, then what is next? Internet would be the logical follow-up. Hence the testing. It all makes perfect sense when you look at it from Rissia's side.
  - dmitrykan 7y ago
    > Visa and MasterCard pulled their services a few years ago after another set of US sanctions. When did that happen? I’ve been paying with a Master Card just recently in Russia.
  - varjag 7y ago
    Visa and MasterCard services are available in Russia. They do not operate in Russian occupied Crimea.
int_19h 7y ago
Whenever Russia talks about "national security", you have to understand that this is a country that considers e.g. NGOs that receive any foreign funding (even non-state!) to be an infringement of said security.

3pt14159 7y ago

> 1. Thwart cyber attacks By whom? State actors can just launch attacks from computers that have both a Russian internet link and a link up to a internet providing satellite, no?

everdev 7y ago
No security is full proof, but they call it "hardening the target" when you reduce your attack surface.
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  I think the word you're looking for is "foolproof"
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Of course security is an obvious pretense for control. The way you actually reduce attack surface is to take the critical pieces off of it and minimize the paths to be watched, not the whole system. That would be like ensuring it is possible to close off all of the highways into Washington DC to response time for the three federal branches. If it was actually that damn important they would make and use secure tunnels. The only added benefit is an excuse to shut out protesters. Not to mention mere independence isn't everything for system functionalities. Going to muscle powered factories to remove logistical dependence on power would be an obviously stupid move for example because the performance is so much worse. It is "selling ceramic knives that cannot be sharpened as never needing it" marketing deception of trying to cast a flaw as a strength.
  - irascible 7y ago
    This is the equivalent of putting on armor before going to war.
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    > Of course security is an obvious pretense for control. Russia doesn't need pretense for control.
  - seventhtiger 7y ago
    I don't think this is such an effective control if you mean controlling the population. Usually when countries shut down the Internet it's to prevent protestors from organizing rather than disconnecting them from the outside world. This doesn't give them additional leverage considering the Russian government's current power. This is actually most useful for security. At least if you are attacked your national network will survive.
throwaway2048 7y ago
true but things like DDOS are a lot harder when you are forced to rely on nodes within the country that internal police can shut down.

azangru 7y ago

> but I think the original premise was security in the event of war / aggression. That was my understanding as well.

jethro_tell 7y ago
which is easy to declare without processes as needed, such as during social unrest. . ..
- azangru 7y ago
  Oh, during a social unrest in Egypt in 2011 the government famously shut down the internet. Didn't help them much :-) I think the main concern of the Russian internet users is to get isolated from the rest of the internet indefinitely during peace time, in a way of China or North Korea. I am not sure we are seeing signs that the Russian government intends to go that far yet.
  - FpUser 7y ago
    When all that mess with Russia/Ukraine had started the West was openly contemplating disconnecting Russia from the international payment services. That had lead Russia to develop it's own. The Internet is a vital infrastructure element. Leaving the risk of potential disruption to some US congressmen's whims is not a very wise choice. Of course it can be used with bad intentions as well but so can anything else. I think I've already mentioned this in my older post and it was downvoted eagerly.
    - conistonwater 7y ago
      > the West was openly contemplating disconnecting Russia from the international payment services This is a claim made by the Russian government with little actual support as far as I know. It comes up every once in a while when the issue is mentioned, and is usually uncritically accepted.
      - 7y ago

viraptor 7y ago

> 3. Halt foreign online payments That is extremely unlikely to happen. Payments, banking, investment will be always connected, or placed abroad in the required way. At least for important enough transactions - probably not Amazon, but stock trades...

capdeck 7y ago
>> 3. Halt foreign online payments > That is extremely unlikely to happen. That's what very much has already happened. Visa and MasterCard pulled their services a few years ago after another set of US sanctions. Also, if you are a business and using SWIFT to transact - US has the final say what you can and can not do. So now Russia has it's own payment card system MiR and working with China, India and even Iran on alternative to SWIFT. I think it was a mistake for US to retract payment services. A smaller country may be severely affected by it indeed, but not a country of the size of Russia, China or India. Now if payment networks were pulled, then what is next? Internet would be the logical follow-up. Hence the testing. It all makes perfect sense when you look at it from Rissia's side.
- dmitrykan 7y ago
  > Visa and MasterCard pulled their services a few years ago after another set of US sanctions. When did that happen? I’ve been paying with a Master Card just recently in Russia.
- varjag 7y ago
  Visa and MasterCard services are available in Russia. They do not operate in Russian occupied Crimea.

int_19h 7y ago

Whenever Russia talks about "national security", you have to understand that this is a country that considers e.g. NGOs that receive any foreign funding (even non-state!) to be an infringement of said security.