5 ms·

India’s Internet shutdown in Kashmir is the longest ever in a democracy

63 points by prad9104 7y ago

Gabrielfair 7y ago
First Hong Kong, then Tehran, then Kazmir...
- reaperducer 7y ago
  When was internet shut down in Hong Kong? I missed that.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  Russia had one too
lonelappde 7y ago
When does it stop being called a "democracy"?
- tibbydudeza 7y ago
  It is a totalitarian democracy.
- trianglem 7y ago
  Technically still a democracy but the secular part is taking a serious beating.
- pasabagi 7y ago
  Hopefully never. Nazi Germany was a democracy. They cancelled the elections during the war - but then, so did the British. I think it's good to be aware of how sick a democracy can get. Anti-Semitism was very popular in Germany. Islamophobia is very popular in India. You can't just blame it on a few evil strongmen. Sometimes, it's the culture that's at fault.
  - woodandsteel 7y ago
    It was a democracy, but it was not what is known in political philosophy as a liberal democracy. A liberal democracy is one that respects human rights. So India under the rule of the BJP is transforming from a liberal democracy to an illiberal democracy. This is not surprising, since liberal democracy is a modern western concept, but the BJP holds that traditional Hindu culture is best.
    - pasabagi 7y ago
      I'm not sure I agree. All liberal democracies have the tendency (and usually also explicit mechanisms) to transform into illiberal democracies. That's the whole point of a 'state of emergency'. Most dictatorships (including the Nazis) are inaugurated by a state of emergency, where some liberal rights are suspended. However, democracies also do this all the time - iirc, the US has been in a state of emergency since the 60's. I also think human rights are distinct from liberal democracy - since liberal democracies predate the concept, and many liberal democracies (e.g. the US, UK) don't really abide by the UN charter in lots of ways, or don't have them constitutionally enshrined. I think in reality, the line between well-functioning liberal democracy and scary dictatorship is really thin - and states cross from one side to the other all the time. For instance, Montana in the USA imprisoned people for saying anything against the US government in the first world war. India has obviously been flirting with some scary ideas for some time, most notably with the treatment of Dalits and Muslims - but it's hard to see this as just a BJP problem. I think the BJP make the whole situation worse, but I just don't see how you could avoid this kind of thing in a normal capitalist democracy with extreme inequality and poverty. It's like in the US south during apartheid. The only way the ruling group could secure anybody's support was by convincing their poor white workers they had more in common with rich white men than poor black men. Unless you neuter inequality, social divisions - caste, gender, race - are always going to be an easy way for the rich to ensure the poor don't join forces against them. So secular, liberal democracy in such a state is just a moment between various modalities of illiberal ethno-nationalism.
      - woodandsteel 7y ago
Halluxfboy009 7y ago
Kashmiris call the train the Internet Express. It shuttles people out of the Kashmir Valley — where India has shut down access to the Internet for more than four months — to the nearest town where they can get online. On a recent foggy morning, it was full of people hoping to renew driver’s licenses, apply for passports, fill out admissions forms and check email. They included 16-year-old Khushboo Yaqoob, who was rushing to register for a medical school exam. “If I had any other option, I wouldn’t be here,” she said.

63 points by prad9104 7y ago

Gabrielfair 7y ago

First Hong Kong, then Tehran, then Kazmir...

reaperducer 7y ago
When was internet shut down in Hong Kong? I missed that.
faissaloo 7y ago
Russia had one too

lonelappde 7y ago

When does it stop being called a "democracy"?

tibbydudeza 7y ago
It is a totalitarian democracy.
trianglem 7y ago
Technically still a democracy but the secular part is taking a serious beating.
pasabagi 7y ago
Hopefully never. Nazi Germany was a democracy. They cancelled the elections during the war - but then, so did the British. I think it's good to be aware of how sick a democracy can get. Anti-Semitism was very popular in Germany. Islamophobia is very popular in India. You can't just blame it on a few evil strongmen. Sometimes, it's the culture that's at fault.
- woodandsteel 7y ago
  It was a democracy, but it was not what is known in political philosophy as a liberal democracy. A liberal democracy is one that respects human rights. So India under the rule of the BJP is transforming from a liberal democracy to an illiberal democracy. This is not surprising, since liberal democracy is a modern western concept, but the BJP holds that traditional Hindu culture is best.
  - pasabagi 7y ago
    I'm not sure I agree. All liberal democracies have the tendency (and usually also explicit mechanisms) to transform into illiberal democracies. That's the whole point of a 'state of emergency'. Most dictatorships (including the Nazis) are inaugurated by a state of emergency, where some liberal rights are suspended. However, democracies also do this all the time - iirc, the US has been in a state of emergency since the 60's. I also think human rights are distinct from liberal democracy - since liberal democracies predate the concept, and many liberal democracies (e.g. the US, UK) don't really abide by the UN charter in lots of ways, or don't have them constitutionally enshrined. I think in reality, the line between well-functioning liberal democracy and scary dictatorship is really thin - and states cross from one side to the other all the time. For instance, Montana in the USA imprisoned people for saying anything against the US government in the first world war. India has obviously been flirting with some scary ideas for some time, most notably with the treatment of Dalits and Muslims - but it's hard to see this as just a BJP problem. I think the BJP make the whole situation worse, but I just don't see how you could avoid this kind of thing in a normal capitalist democracy with extreme inequality and poverty. It's like in the US south during apartheid. The only way the ruling group could secure anybody's support was by convincing their poor white workers they had more in common with rich white men than poor black men. Unless you neuter inequality, social divisions - caste, gender, race - are always going to be an easy way for the rich to ensure the poor don't join forces against them. So secular, liberal democracy in such a state is just a moment between various modalities of illiberal ethno-nationalism.
    - woodandsteel 7y ago

Halluxfboy009 7y ago

Kashmiris call the train the Internet Express. It shuttles people out of the Kashmir Valley — where India has shut down access to the Internet for more than four months — to the nearest town where they can get online. On a recent foggy morning, it was full of people hoping to renew driver’s licenses, apply for passports, fill out admissions forms and check email. They included 16-year-old Khushboo Yaqoob, who was rushing to register for a medical school exam. “If I had any other option, I wouldn’t be here,” she said.