5 ms·

Is there any reason whatsoever to think Russia interfered? I mean outside the bull of "Russian person or company bought ads on Facebook", because if that counts

Is there any reason whatsoever to think Russia interfered? I mean outside the bull of "Russian person or company bought ads on Facebook", because if that counts I think half the world interfered in the election.

davidw 7y ago
Because it has been thoroughly documented? https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-russia-government-contact-timeline-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-russia-govern... Here's another one about something much smaller and more local than the election: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-trolls-senate-intelligence-committee-hearing-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-trolls-senate-intelli... They were trying to get Americans to fight in the streets, and organized a protest and counter protest!
wl 7y ago
I think you're asking a subtly different question, namely: Did Russian efforts to influence the election materially affect the outcome?
- davidw 7y ago
  Yeah, and I don't think anyone can ever have a definitive answer for that one.
zzzeek 7y ago
how about they hacked into private servers, stole private emails, carefully curated the most embarrassing segments, then released them throughout the internet? does that count? There are many reasons and they are nicely documented at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...
- 867567838694 7y ago
  You mean the DNC hack where they wouldn't let the FBI investigate and their own investigate company blamed it on the Russians but they wouldn't share the evidence? These were all leaks from inside.
  - zzzeek 7y ago
    So the Russians did nothing, but there is a vast conspiracy by virtually the entire Federal government from top (oh wait, not quite the top) to bottom plus all media outlets to make it look like they did, and all 10000 federal employees who are in on it are so good at keeping it entirely a secret that there has been zero evidence whatsoever for such a claim leaked.
black6 7y ago
From a nation-state perspective I would hope they attempt to interfere in the elections of their national rivals in order to eke out an advantage on the global playing field, just as I expect my own government to be doing the same.
- DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
  I can't reconcile that with America's stated goal of promoting democracy in those same countries.
  - beachwood23 7y ago
    Can you reconcile this with our history of meddling in other country's elections? From 2017, we influenced the French election: http://www.theamericanmirror.com/obama-meddles-french-election-pushes-macron-video/ http://www.theamericanmirror.com/obama-meddles-french-electi... American involvement in other other countries's leadership is so prevalent that there is a Wikipedia page for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
    - davidw 7y ago
      Endorsing a candidate is not "meddling in elections". Anyone trying to sell that line is not on the level. There certainly have been plenty of instances of the US doing very bad things globally (your second link is very much legit), but I guess the stated goal of spreading democracy is better than whatever straight up authoritarian states like Russia are peddling, even if it can be frustrating when things fail to live up to the ideal. I think you can certainly argue for less US involvement abroad and still view Russia's actions in a very, very poor light.
the_gastropod 7y ago
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you're asking this in good faith. The answer is a resounding "yes". 1. On social media, the IRA (Russia's Internet Research Agency) posed as Americans on Twitter and Facebook, and was ordered to amplify and provoke political and social discord in the United States. They organized political rallies (including "Blue Lives Matter") and fake Facebook groups, complete with convenient memes, unwittingly shared by people like Donald Trump Jr., Kellyanne Conway, Michael Flynn, etc. 2. The GRU hacked into email accounts owned by volunteers and employees of the Clinton campaign. They also hacked into the DNC and DCCC and released the stolen emails and documents to Wikileaks. 3. There were 140 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian government officials around the 2016 election. I suggest you read the Mueller report if you're actually curious about this.

davidw 7y ago

Because it has been thoroughly documented? https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-russia-government-contact-timeline-2018-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-russia-govern... Here's another one about something much smaller and more local than the election: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-trolls-senate-intelligence-committee-hearing-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-trolls-senate-intelli... They were trying to get Americans to fight in the streets, and organized a protest and counter protest!

wl 7y ago

I think you're asking a subtly different question, namely: Did Russian efforts to influence the election materially affect the outcome?

davidw 7y ago
Yeah, and I don't think anyone can ever have a definitive answer for that one.

zzzeek 7y ago

how about they hacked into private servers, stole private emails, carefully curated the most embarrassing segments, then released them throughout the internet? does that count? There are many reasons and they are nicely documented at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

867567838694 7y ago
You mean the DNC hack where they wouldn't let the FBI investigate and their own investigate company blamed it on the Russians but they wouldn't share the evidence? These were all leaks from inside.
- zzzeek 7y ago
  So the Russians did nothing, but there is a vast conspiracy by virtually the entire Federal government from top (oh wait, not quite the top) to bottom plus all media outlets to make it look like they did, and all 10000 federal employees who are in on it are so good at keeping it entirely a secret that there has been zero evidence whatsoever for such a claim leaked.

black6 7y ago

From a nation-state perspective I would hope they attempt to interfere in the elections of their national rivals in order to eke out an advantage on the global playing field, just as I expect my own government to be doing the same.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
I can't reconcile that with America's stated goal of promoting democracy in those same countries.
- beachwood23 7y ago
  Can you reconcile this with our history of meddling in other country's elections? From 2017, we influenced the French election: http://www.theamericanmirror.com/obama-meddles-french-election-pushes-macron-video/ http://www.theamericanmirror.com/obama-meddles-french-electi... American involvement in other other countries's leadership is so prevalent that there is a Wikipedia page for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
  - davidw 7y ago
    Endorsing a candidate is not "meddling in elections". Anyone trying to sell that line is not on the level. There certainly have been plenty of instances of the US doing very bad things globally (your second link is very much legit), but I guess the stated goal of spreading democracy is better than whatever straight up authoritarian states like Russia are peddling, even if it can be frustrating when things fail to live up to the ideal. I think you can certainly argue for less US involvement abroad and still view Russia's actions in a very, very poor light.

the_gastropod 7y ago

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you're asking this in good faith. The answer is a resounding "yes". 1. On social media, the IRA (Russia's Internet Research Agency) posed as Americans on Twitter and Facebook, and was ordered to amplify and provoke political and social discord in the United States. They organized political rallies (including "Blue Lives Matter") and fake Facebook groups, complete with convenient memes, unwittingly shared by people like Donald Trump Jr., Kellyanne Conway, Michael Flynn, etc. 2. The GRU hacked into email accounts owned by volunteers and employees of the Clinton campaign. They also hacked into the DNC and DCCC and released the stolen emails and documents to Wikileaks. 3. There were 140 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian government officials around the 2016 election. I suggest you read the Mueller report if you're actually curious about this.