5 ms·

I appreciate your pedantry - the scientific community understands the mechanical physiological body (skin, eyes, hair) on a cause-and-affect level, but hardly u

I appreciate your pedantry - the scientific community understands the mechanical physiological body (skin, eyes, hair) on a cause-and-affect level, but hardly understands the mind and mood because mental health is such a subjective experience, it's nearly impossible to fit into modern a scientific paradigm

icandoit 7y ago
Mental health isn't a strictly subjective experience though. You can measure days called-in-sick. You can measure suicide count. Cause and effect isn't necessary to reduce harm. You with me? It's nice to have certainly, but it is not required. Imagine that I am a friend of yours. I tell you that my child is depressed and the doctor suggests pill1, it makes my child more lethargic. We try pill2 and the depression is gone. I tell you that I am happy with the results of pill2 and that while I am interested in how it works and potential long-term consequences, I'm happy staying on pill2. Is this imagined parent strictly better than a parent that refuses to try any pill until convinced of its mechanism and success? I would say yes. Observation is the workhorse of the scientific paradigm, not idealized experimentation. The quantity, and thus value, of Inductive evidence is greater than that of Deductive evidence.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- squish78 7y ago
  This scientific paradigm only is able to describe a treatment, it fails to diagnose a specific cause
  - icandoit 7y ago
    The value of a treatment can be measured in lives saved. Causes (where no treatment is implied) can only be measured in ink on paper. Which would you value in your medical care professional? Measure what you value and optimize for it. Why do this devils advocate stuff?
    - squish78 7y ago
      I suppose I'm advocating for prevention instead of treatment and what the ideal conditions would be for good mental health so that treatment could be avoided in the first place.
the_gastropod 7y ago
C'mon. The comment you're replying to with "makes sense" is about city living vs rural. You weren't commenting that it's unknowable. You stated that "unnatural lights" and "disrupting biological rhythm" (whatever that means) probably cause one's brain to go "haywire" (implication being: and commit suicide). As if there aren't uncountable other variables that have changed dramatically over millions of years. Or hell, do you even know if suicide rates are higher today than they were millions of years ago? No. You came here to try to suggest city living was inferior to rural living, and used "millions of years of evolution", and some implication that modern rural life is somehow more similar to those millions of years than urban life.
- squish78 7y ago
  I made no implication that contemporary rural life is superior or in any way comparable to historical rural life.
  - the_gastropod 7y ago
    "...makes sense that cramming into cities with unnatural lights and disrupting biological rhythm would make them go haywire" Then what does this suggest? Why does "unnatural light" (ignoring that humans have built "unnatural light" fires for ~1.7 million years) make a brain go haywire, but not, say, clipping one's toenails? Or reading books, or sitting on chairs, or being blasted by radio waves, or running on treadmills, or traveling over 15mph, or wearing clothes, or flying in airplanes, etc. What are you saying?
    - squish78 7y ago
      Health effects of sedentary lifestyle "sitting in chairs" https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/the-dangers-of-sitting https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/the... Health effects of radio waves: https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/radio-frequency-safety/faq/rf-safety#Q9 https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-c... Artificial light exposure and circadian rhythm: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30311830 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30311830 I'm saying exactly what I said - there are some aspects of an urban technological life that are harmful to the human body

icandoit 7y ago

Mental health isn't a strictly subjective experience though. You can measure days called-in-sick. You can measure suicide count. Cause and effect isn't necessary to reduce harm. You with me? It's nice to have certainly, but it is not required. Imagine that I am a friend of yours. I tell you that my child is depressed and the doctor suggests pill1, it makes my child more lethargic. We try pill2 and the depression is gone. I tell you that I am happy with the results of pill2 and that while I am interested in how it works and potential long-term consequences, I'm happy staying on pill2. Is this imagined parent strictly better than a parent that refuses to try any pill until convinced of its mechanism and success? I would say yes. Observation is the workhorse of the scientific paradigm, not idealized experimentation. The quantity, and thus value, of Inductive evidence is greater than that of Deductive evidence.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
squish78 7y ago
This scientific paradigm only is able to describe a treatment, it fails to diagnose a specific cause
- icandoit 7y ago
  The value of a treatment can be measured in lives saved. Causes (where no treatment is implied) can only be measured in ink on paper. Which would you value in your medical care professional? Measure what you value and optimize for it. Why do this devils advocate stuff?
  - squish78 7y ago
    I suppose I'm advocating for prevention instead of treatment and what the ideal conditions would be for good mental health so that treatment could be avoided in the first place.

the_gastropod 7y ago

C'mon. The comment you're replying to with "makes sense" is about city living vs rural. You weren't commenting that it's unknowable. You stated that "unnatural lights" and "disrupting biological rhythm" (whatever that means) probably cause one's brain to go "haywire" (implication being: and commit suicide). As if there aren't uncountable other variables that have changed dramatically over millions of years. Or hell, do you even know if suicide rates are higher today than they were millions of years ago? No. You came here to try to suggest city living was inferior to rural living, and used "millions of years of evolution", and some implication that modern rural life is somehow more similar to those millions of years than urban life.

squish78 7y ago
I made no implication that contemporary rural life is superior or in any way comparable to historical rural life.
- the_gastropod 7y ago
  "...makes sense that cramming into cities with unnatural lights and disrupting biological rhythm would make them go haywire" Then what does this suggest? Why does "unnatural light" (ignoring that humans have built "unnatural light" fires for ~1.7 million years) make a brain go haywire, but not, say, clipping one's toenails? Or reading books, or sitting on chairs, or being blasted by radio waves, or running on treadmills, or traveling over 15mph, or wearing clothes, or flying in airplanes, etc. What are you saying?
  - squish78 7y ago
    Health effects of sedentary lifestyle "sitting in chairs" https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/the-dangers-of-sitting https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/the... Health effects of radio waves: https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-compatibility-division/radio-frequency-safety/faq/rf-safety#Q9 https://www.fcc.gov/engineering-technology/electromagnetic-c... Artificial light exposure and circadian rhythm: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30311830 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30311830 I'm saying exactly what I said - there are some aspects of an urban technological life that are harmful to the human body