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Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware

by fghtr 7y ago

Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware kill switches; first replaceable cellular modem and Wi-Fi/ Bluetooth (on M.2 cards); first smart card reader (for 2FF OpenPGP card); first running 100% free software; only current phone to offer convergence as PC without special hardware" https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elephant-or-the-first-in-a-wave/6883 https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elepha...

computerex 7y ago
It's probably also the only "phone" that can't place phone calls.
- duskwuff 7y ago
  This isn't hyperbole. The speaker used to not work during voice calls: > The other [problem] is that call audio isn't routed to the speaker. I haven't personally hit this, I'm just using a data-only SIM and can't remember the last time I actually used a phone to make a voice call. https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/ https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/
- lostgame 7y ago
  Not sure why the downvotes, here - it’s incredibly valid that a phone of this price should be able to place a normal phone call - it also should’ve been a priority for the developers.
  - kop316 7y ago
    The down votes are because it can place and receive phone calls, there is just a bug that doesn't allow audio on the call. EDIT: according to someone below, that bug is fixed too. In addition, the backers getting the phone now were explicitly told that the software isn't polished yet, and that they are getting beta hardware. The backers were offered also to be allowed to wait for a later batch if they wanted to. It definitely is not ready to be a daily driver, don't get me wrong. But folks who wanted it early knew that.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      Also, you can already get call audio working if you get latest packages from git or CI.
      - kop316 7y ago
        Ohh good to know! I'm not in any hurry so I will just wait for the official updates.
    - unlinked_dll 7y ago
      That's absurdly pedantic. If it can't use audio during a phone call, then the device is incapable of making phone calls. That's like arguing you have a functioning heart because it's connected to your veins but can't pump blood.
      - kop316 7y ago
        If you look at another reply, the bug was fixed already. But to your original comment, I'd argue it's not. Saying it can't make phone calls implies there's a much more severe issue than it apparently was.
        computerex 7y ago
        It's not fixed. What gives you the impression that it is? No update has been rolled out with a fix.
        kop316 7y ago
        Please read the other reply to the comment. You'll see where I got the impression then. Edit: it looks like the person also directly replied to another comment of yours, so I'll add that here: " > and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed You can hear call audio if you use CI images since a few days ago already. Last rough edges are being sorted out right now before finally packaging it all into PureOS."
ajvs 7y ago
It's also one of the few phones to have hardware baseband isolation - making you immune to IMSI catchers and other cellular-based attacks.
wander_homer 7y ago
> first running 100% free software That's false, the phone requires non-free software for things like the modem to work.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  It does not; from the system perspective it's just a USB-on-M.2 peripheral that works perfectly well with free software such as Linux, libqmi, ModemManager, oFono or fsogsmd. You don't usually say "printing requires non-free software" just because your USB printer runs some non-free firmware inside, even though it's technically true.
  - tluyben2 7y ago
    > You don't usually say Some people (me as well) do. It is very frustrating that we have this legacy thing where any radio devices are ‘protected’ like this.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      Sure, but most people don't and saying that without making sure they know what you mean is at best misleading. Also, counting the modem as making the whole device non-free would require you to count plenty of other things as well, such as microSD cards, accelerometers, audio codecs, SIM cards, even USB-C cables, as all of those things (and more) contain non-free blobs inside. In my opinion it's not a useful stance to hold if you care about freedom - even FSF doesn't do that.
      - tluyben2 7y ago
        I agree with you but I think it is better that people realise this and then use the device as ‘as free as we can get without making me a hermit’ instead of just hiding it.
        seba_dos1 7y ago
        The point is - it is truly 100% free at the level that actually matters: the user controlled operating system. This is the point where I feel completely comfortable with calling it "100% free" without further explanation (especially when the last, and I think the only, smartphone to ever reach that level was GTA02 from 2008), just as I am completely comfortable with saying "I made this cake from scratch" without having invented a universe.
LMYahooTFY 7y ago
What purpose is there for being able to remove the cell modem? If it's going to run a Broadcom/Qualcomm binary anyway to function, what do you really gain? Someone who's concerned about this level of eavesdropping I would think shouldn't bother with cellular devices at all?
- kop316 7y ago
  The only other way to do it is to have an SoC with the modem integrated on chip. The issue with that becomes that the firmware and usually drivers force a certain Linux version (my tablet is stick on Linux 3.10, my phone is on 4.19 and I'd be amazed if it was ever upgraded). With this way, they can mainline the entire set up and not force non-free dependencies.

by fghtr 7y ago

computerex 7y ago

It's probably also the only "phone" that can't place phone calls.

duskwuff 7y ago
This isn't hyperbole. The speaker used to not work during voice calls: > The other [problem] is that call audio isn't routed to the speaker. I haven't personally hit this, I'm just using a data-only SIM and can't remember the last time I actually used a phone to make a voice call. https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/ https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/
lostgame 7y ago
Not sure why the downvotes, here - it’s incredibly valid that a phone of this price should be able to place a normal phone call - it also should’ve been a priority for the developers.
- kop316 7y ago
  The down votes are because it can place and receive phone calls, there is just a bug that doesn't allow audio on the call. EDIT: according to someone below, that bug is fixed too. In addition, the backers getting the phone now were explicitly told that the software isn't polished yet, and that they are getting beta hardware. The backers were offered also to be allowed to wait for a later batch if they wanted to. It definitely is not ready to be a daily driver, don't get me wrong. But folks who wanted it early knew that.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    Also, you can already get call audio working if you get latest packages from git or CI.
    - kop316 7y ago
      Ohh good to know! I'm not in any hurry so I will just wait for the official updates.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    That's absurdly pedantic. If it can't use audio during a phone call, then the device is incapable of making phone calls. That's like arguing you have a functioning heart because it's connected to your veins but can't pump blood.
    - kop316 7y ago
      If you look at another reply, the bug was fixed already. But to your original comment, I'd argue it's not. Saying it can't make phone calls implies there's a much more severe issue than it apparently was.
      - computerex 7y ago
        It's not fixed. What gives you the impression that it is? No update has been rolled out with a fix.
        kop316 7y ago
        Please read the other reply to the comment. You'll see where I got the impression then. Edit: it looks like the person also directly replied to another comment of yours, so I'll add that here: " > and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed You can hear call audio if you use CI images since a few days ago already. Last rough edges are being sorted out right now before finally packaging it all into PureOS."

ajvs 7y ago

It's also one of the few phones to have hardware baseband isolation - making you immune to IMSI catchers and other cellular-based attacks.

wander_homer 7y ago

> first running 100% free software That's false, the phone requires non-free software for things like the modem to work.

seba_dos1 7y ago
It does not; from the system perspective it's just a USB-on-M.2 peripheral that works perfectly well with free software such as Linux, libqmi, ModemManager, oFono or fsogsmd. You don't usually say "printing requires non-free software" just because your USB printer runs some non-free firmware inside, even though it's technically true.
- tluyben2 7y ago
  > You don't usually say Some people (me as well) do. It is very frustrating that we have this legacy thing where any radio devices are ‘protected’ like this.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    Sure, but most people don't and saying that without making sure they know what you mean is at best misleading. Also, counting the modem as making the whole device non-free would require you to count plenty of other things as well, such as microSD cards, accelerometers, audio codecs, SIM cards, even USB-C cables, as all of those things (and more) contain non-free blobs inside. In my opinion it's not a useful stance to hold if you care about freedom - even FSF doesn't do that.
    - tluyben2 7y ago
      I agree with you but I think it is better that people realise this and then use the device as ‘as free as we can get without making me a hermit’ instead of just hiding it.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        The point is - it is truly 100% free at the level that actually matters: the user controlled operating system. This is the point where I feel completely comfortable with calling it "100% free" without further explanation (especially when the last, and I think the only, smartphone to ever reach that level was GTA02 from 2008), just as I am completely comfortable with saying "I made this cake from scratch" without having invented a universe.

LMYahooTFY 7y ago

What purpose is there for being able to remove the cell modem? If it's going to run a Broadcom/Qualcomm binary anyway to function, what do you really gain? Someone who's concerned about this level of eavesdropping I would think shouldn't bother with cellular devices at all?

kop316 7y ago
The only other way to do it is to have an SoC with the modem integrated on chip. The issue with that becomes that the firmware and usually drivers force a certain Linux version (my tablet is stick on Linux 3.10, my phone is on 4.19 and I'd be amazed if it was ever upgraded). With this way, they can mainline the entire set up and not force non-free dependencies.