5 ms·

Wouldn't this be a transformation or an independent work of sorts? If I drew a sketch of the same bust, wouldn't I have the copyright to my sketch? I don't see

Wouldn't this be a transformation or an independent work of sorts? If I drew a sketch of the same bust, wouldn't I have the copyright to my sketch? I don't see why the 3d scan wouldn't be considered similar.

esrauch 7y ago
If the 3d scan involved any creative input then it would also be protected. The sketch is understood to have your creative input applied to what you observed. Consider maps: just accurately capture reality isn't copyrightable, if they have anything that was a creative decision then they do. Maybe ironically the design and placement of the creative commons false inlay could be make the overall model copyrightable even if just the head part wasn't.
burnte 7y ago
I'm not saying it wouldn't be copyrightable, but I can see how it wouldn't be. It's not transformative, in fact the idea is to get as close to a replica as possible. It could easily be described as utilitarian until it's modified, a description of facts like news, the phone book, or recipes. But let's say it's copyrightable, are we saying that the digital representation of the object is under copyright, or that specific file? That's how fonts work, the shape of the characters are not copyright protected, but the actual font file is, so I can go a recreate a font as long as I re-write it myself (and obviously don't wind up with identical file output in the end). It's a n interesting subject, personally.
notatoad 7y ago
If you drew a sketch that you felt was the ultimate best sketch possible, and without seeing your sketch i drew a sketch of the same subject that i felt was the best sketch possible, we'd come up with two completely different sketches that were each our own interpretation of the original work. If you took a 3D scan, and i took a 3D scan of the same subject, barring either of us making a mistake, we'd both come up with exactly the same final result. 3D scanning is not the creation of an original work, it's a reproduction. Claiming copyright on a 3D scan is just as crazy as claiming copyright on any other reproduction. I can't rip a DVD and then claim that my ripped MKV file is an original work that i own the copyright to.
- dpau 7y ago
  without using a 3d scanner, i can take very precise measurements by hand with a result that rivals the scan. so in that case it becomes a question of resolution or fidelity. the question is, how accurate does a reproduction need to be to violate copyright?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - nineteen999 7y ago
    > without using a 3d scanner, i can take very precise measurements by hand Ignoring the practical part of this, which is that the Museum isn't going to let you close enough to the bust to do this. But assuming they did for a second - > with a result that rivals the scan The linked scan contains nearly 6.5 million tesselated polygons, and surface color data in Ptex format. You are not going to be able to get within cooee of that. Any hand measured copy is going to qualify as an artists interpretation and would not violate copyright I should think.
    - dpau 7y ago
      of course. it's a thought experiment. theoretically given enough time and extremely precise instruments it would be possible to get measurements close enough. so the question remains- is this really an issue of "artistic interpretation" or just accuracy?
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        As I posted elsewhere, I think I have a philosophical issue with the idea that you can undo or reverse the creative process through creating an additional derivative work. Say you take a lot of photographs of an object, and they are stipulated to be creative. Then you can use photogrammetry to derive a 3D model. So if the direct antecedent of your work was creative, how can your model be noncreative?
        7y ago

esrauch 7y ago

If the 3d scan involved any creative input then it would also be protected. The sketch is understood to have your creative input applied to what you observed. Consider maps: just accurately capture reality isn't copyrightable, if they have anything that was a creative decision then they do. Maybe ironically the design and placement of the creative commons false inlay could be make the overall model copyrightable even if just the head part wasn't.

burnte 7y ago

I'm not saying it wouldn't be copyrightable, but I can see how it wouldn't be. It's not transformative, in fact the idea is to get as close to a replica as possible. It could easily be described as utilitarian until it's modified, a description of facts like news, the phone book, or recipes. But let's say it's copyrightable, are we saying that the digital representation of the object is under copyright, or that specific file? That's how fonts work, the shape of the characters are not copyright protected, but the actual font file is, so I can go a recreate a font as long as I re-write it myself (and obviously don't wind up with identical file output in the end). It's a n interesting subject, personally.

notatoad 7y ago

If you drew a sketch that you felt was the ultimate best sketch possible, and without seeing your sketch i drew a sketch of the same subject that i felt was the best sketch possible, we'd come up with two completely different sketches that were each our own interpretation of the original work. If you took a 3D scan, and i took a 3D scan of the same subject, barring either of us making a mistake, we'd both come up with exactly the same final result. 3D scanning is not the creation of an original work, it's a reproduction. Claiming copyright on a 3D scan is just as crazy as claiming copyright on any other reproduction. I can't rip a DVD and then claim that my ripped MKV file is an original work that i own the copyright to.

dpau 7y ago
without using a 3d scanner, i can take very precise measurements by hand with a result that rivals the scan. so in that case it becomes a question of resolution or fidelity. the question is, how accurate does a reproduction need to be to violate copyright?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nineteen999 7y ago
  > without using a 3d scanner, i can take very precise measurements by hand Ignoring the practical part of this, which is that the Museum isn't going to let you close enough to the bust to do this. But assuming they did for a second - > with a result that rivals the scan The linked scan contains nearly 6.5 million tesselated polygons, and surface color data in Ptex format. You are not going to be able to get within cooee of that. Any hand measured copy is going to qualify as an artists interpretation and would not violate copyright I should think.
  - dpau 7y ago
    of course. it's a thought experiment. theoretically given enough time and extremely precise instruments it would be possible to get measurements close enough. so the question remains- is this really an issue of "artistic interpretation" or just accuracy?
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      As I posted elsewhere, I think I have a philosophical issue with the idea that you can undo or reverse the creative process through creating an additional derivative work. Say you take a lot of photographs of an object, and they are stipulated to be creative. Then you can use photogrammetry to derive a 3D model. So if the direct antecedent of your work was creative, how can your model be noncreative?
      - 7y ago