7 ms·

This is one of the goals of Polymer- a cleaner API/abstraction layer on top of web components, right?

floatboth 7y ago
Well, forget about "Polymer the library", it served us well but it's very legacy at this point. The successor is https://lit-element.polymer-project.org https://lit-element.polymer-project.org and it's awesome.
- interlocutor 7y ago
  Why on earth do you need something that heavy? How about this 200-line lib instead: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder It lets you TSX format (same to React) to implement as well as to use web components.
  - spankalee 7y ago
    > Unlike React.js UIBuilder does not do incremental screen updates LitElement + lit-html give you very efficient updates, and don't require non-standard JS like JSX.
    - interlocutor 7y ago
      lit-html is no more of a standard than JSX. In fact JSX is better because tools like VSCode is able to validate both HTML and embedded JavaScript.
      - spankalee 7y ago
        Huh? lit-html uses standard JavaScript. That's it. JSX is a non-standard extension. So yes it is more standard than a non-standard, and lit-html runs directly in browsers without any transpilation while JSX very much doesn't. VS Code is as able to analyze lit-html templates as well as JSX via the lit-plugin extensions. It gives you type-checking, code completion, hover-over docs, and linting.
        interlocutor 7y ago
        lit-html needs a 1600 line library where as UIBuilder is a 200-line library: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder/blob/master/UIBuilder/UIBuilder.ts https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder/blob/master/UIBuilde... Yes, JSX needs transpilation but that happens at compile-time. Which is better, pre-processing at compile-time, or "transpilation" (i.e., string processing) at run-time?
        spankalee 7y ago
        UIBuilder doesn't do incremental updates at all. You might as well use innerHTML and template literals. That's a 0-line library :)
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        interlocutor 7y ago
        Updates offered by lit-html appear to be very limited. If you change value of expressions it updates the DOM. What about larger changes, such as list items changing? What about child elements being replaced with new ones?
        spankalee 7y ago
        It handles all of that.
        interlocutor 7y ago
        That does not appear to be correct. https://github.com/Polymer/lit-html/wiki/How-it-Works#4-update https://github.com/Polymer/lit-html/wiki/How-it-Works#4-upda... Excerpt: update() simply iterates through each part and value (the parts array and values array are always the same length) and calls part.setvalue(v) for each part. https://lit-html.polymer-project.org/guide https://lit-html.polymer-project.org/guide Excerpt: Behind the scenes lit-html creates HTML <template> elements from your JavaScript templates and processes them so that it knows exactly where to insert and update the values from expressions. This is very limited. You need to manually update DOM unless your updates are simple changes in values of expressions.
nothis 7y ago
So we finally got a goddamn proper standard and we're already cheering for the next API to throw in front of it to make it "cleaner"?
- floatboth 7y ago
  Actually, no. There's no need or possibility to make it "cleaner", but there's always the direction of making it more "high level". These are very different things. If you look at https://lit-element.polymer-project.org https://lit-element.polymer-project.org — it's just a base class that integrates declarative DOM templates. The platform APIs are not opinionated about templating, they just provide proper mechanisms for declaring elements and having isolated DOM subtrees. It makes sense to leave templating to libraries, because… well, good luck on getting even just two people to agree about how templating should be done :)

Well, forget about "Polymer the library", it served us well but it's very legacy at this point. The successor is https://lit-element.polymer-project.org https://lit-element.polymer-project.org and it's awesome.

interlocutor 7y ago
Why on earth do you need something that heavy? How about this 200-line lib instead: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder It lets you TSX format (same to React) to implement as well as to use web components.
- spankalee 7y ago
  > Unlike React.js UIBuilder does not do incremental screen updates LitElement + lit-html give you very efficient updates, and don't require non-standard JS like JSX.
  - interlocutor 7y ago
    lit-html is no more of a standard than JSX. In fact JSX is better because tools like VSCode is able to validate both HTML and embedded JavaScript.
    - spankalee 7y ago
      Huh? lit-html uses standard JavaScript. That's it. JSX is a non-standard extension. So yes it is more standard than a non-standard, and lit-html runs directly in browsers without any transpilation while JSX very much doesn't. VS Code is as able to analyze lit-html templates as well as JSX via the lit-plugin extensions. It gives you type-checking, code completion, hover-over docs, and linting.
      - interlocutor 7y ago
        lit-html needs a 1600 line library where as UIBuilder is a 200-line library: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder/blob/master/UIBuilder/UIBuilder.ts https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder/blob/master/UIBuilde... Yes, JSX needs transpilation but that happens at compile-time. Which is better, pre-processing at compile-time, or "transpilation" (i.e., string processing) at run-time?
        spankalee 7y ago
        UIBuilder doesn't do incremental updates at all. You might as well use innerHTML and template literals. That's a 0-line library :)
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        interlocutor 7y ago
        Updates offered by lit-html appear to be very limited. If you change value of expressions it updates the DOM. What about larger changes, such as list items changing? What about child elements being replaced with new ones?
        spankalee 7y ago
        It handles all of that.
        interlocutor 7y ago
        That does not appear to be correct. https://github.com/Polymer/lit-html/wiki/How-it-Works#4-update https://github.com/Polymer/lit-html/wiki/How-it-Works#4-upda... Excerpt: update() simply iterates through each part and value (the parts array and values array are always the same length) and calls part.setvalue(v) for each part. https://lit-html.polymer-project.org/guide https://lit-html.polymer-project.org/guide Excerpt: Behind the scenes lit-html creates HTML <template> elements from your JavaScript templates and processes them so that it knows exactly where to insert and update the values from expressions. This is very limited. You need to manually update DOM unless your updates are simple changes in values of expressions.

nothis 7y ago

So we finally got a goddamn proper standard and we're already cheering for the next API to throw in front of it to make it "cleaner"?

floatboth 7y ago
Actually, no. There's no need or possibility to make it "cleaner", but there's always the direction of making it more "high level". These are very different things. If you look at https://lit-element.polymer-project.org https://lit-element.polymer-project.org — it's just a base class that integrates declarative DOM templates. The platform APIs are not opinionated about templating, they just provide proper mechanisms for declaring elements and having isolated DOM subtrees. It makes sense to leave templating to libraries, because… well, good luck on getting even just two people to agree about how templating should be done :)