6 ms·

Also the acid test is whether the drivers are qualified for unemployment benefits.

mirimir 7y ago
If they're not considered employees, I don't see how they could claim unemployment. And if that's the case, this statement from TFA makes no sense: > The money that they’re not paying into the unemployment and disability systems is being picked up by the states and the taxpayers. Because there's nothing to be "picked up" if those workers don't qualify for unemployment and job-related disability. I get the argument about having more freedom when you're not an employee. But these people are generally getting screwed, I think.
- manigandham 7y ago
  How are they getting screwed? Drivers do it by choice, and many of them do have a full-time job or other commitment and like Uber for the flexibility. They specifically don't want a full-time driving job.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    From what I've read, they often don't make enough to even cover their increased vehicle expenses. And then there's insurance exposure. Also, TFA notes that classification of drivers as employees would increase costs by over 20%. If that's true, someone here is getting screwed. Drivers, governments, or both. But still, I value freedom highly. So I do get the argument that people ought to have the right to work how they want. Even if they're getting screwed.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Articles are a poor source. The drivers wouldn't be driving if they weren't making any money. I've taken thousands of rides and discussed Uber with about 90% of my drivers. While they all would like to make more money (who wouldn't?), they all make a profit and enjoy the flexibility the most.
      - organsnyder 7y ago
        Are they pricing in vehicle wear and other long-term expenses? Many people only think of gas and other short-term expenses when they calculate vehicle cost-per-mile.
        mav3rick 7y ago
        That's on them and not Uber to calculate and make the choice.
      - enraged_camel 7y ago
        >> The drivers wouldn't be driving if they weren't making any money. This might surprise you, but most people are absolutely terrible when it comes to making complex financial decisions involving multiple variable factors over a period of time. The tiny percentage of ride-share drivers who do meticulously keep track of their finances have all said the same thing: at the end of the day, when you factor in everything, you barely make any money - if everything goes well.
        manigandham 7y ago
        Sure people are terrible at decisions but that doesn't mean they're all stupid. I find it hard to believe that all these drivers can't figure out their costs, and everyone I've talked to has been fine with it. The only time I hear complaints that driving isn't worth it is specific trips with traffic or a long dead leg back home, but that's not their entire driving history.
        enraged_camel 7y ago
        The other possibility you are ignoring is that a lot of those drivers may be aware that they are breaking even or barely making any profit, but may be choosing to continue driving because they love driving, or they love meeting new people, or they simply want to stay busy and be out and about instead of sitting at home and getting bored/depressed. Basically, I don't buy the "so many people wouldn't continue doing it if they weren't making good money" argument.
  - IanCal 7y ago
    I'm not sure how things work in America, but in the UK employment does not mean or require full time work or even fixed hours. We also have a lower status of "worker" which has fewer rights / fewer responsibilities.
microcolonel 7y ago
Do they not require independent contractors to contribute premiums for that? That's how it works here in Canada (same for mandatory pensions/"social security").
- kevingadd 7y ago
  If you're an independent contractor here you're expected to pay into the pools yourself, yes.

If they're not considered employees, I don't see how they could claim unemployment. And if that's the case, this statement from TFA makes no sense: > The money that they’re not paying into the unemployment and disability systems is being picked up by the states and the taxpayers. Because there's nothing to be "picked up" if those workers don't qualify for unemployment and job-related disability. I get the argument about having more freedom when you're not an employee. But these people are generally getting screwed, I think.

manigandham 7y ago
How are they getting screwed? Drivers do it by choice, and many of them do have a full-time job or other commitment and like Uber for the flexibility. They specifically don't want a full-time driving job.
- mirimir 7y ago
  From what I've read, they often don't make enough to even cover their increased vehicle expenses. And then there's insurance exposure. Also, TFA notes that classification of drivers as employees would increase costs by over 20%. If that's true, someone here is getting screwed. Drivers, governments, or both. But still, I value freedom highly. So I do get the argument that people ought to have the right to work how they want. Even if they're getting screwed.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Articles are a poor source. The drivers wouldn't be driving if they weren't making any money. I've taken thousands of rides and discussed Uber with about 90% of my drivers. While they all would like to make more money (who wouldn't?), they all make a profit and enjoy the flexibility the most.
    - organsnyder 7y ago
      Are they pricing in vehicle wear and other long-term expenses? Many people only think of gas and other short-term expenses when they calculate vehicle cost-per-mile.
      - mav3rick 7y ago
        That's on them and not Uber to calculate and make the choice.
    - enraged_camel 7y ago
      >> The drivers wouldn't be driving if they weren't making any money. This might surprise you, but most people are absolutely terrible when it comes to making complex financial decisions involving multiple variable factors over a period of time. The tiny percentage of ride-share drivers who do meticulously keep track of their finances have all said the same thing: at the end of the day, when you factor in everything, you barely make any money - if everything goes well.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        Sure people are terrible at decisions but that doesn't mean they're all stupid. I find it hard to believe that all these drivers can't figure out their costs, and everyone I've talked to has been fine with it. The only time I hear complaints that driving isn't worth it is specific trips with traffic or a long dead leg back home, but that's not their entire driving history.
        enraged_camel 7y ago
        The other possibility you are ignoring is that a lot of those drivers may be aware that they are breaking even or barely making any profit, but may be choosing to continue driving because they love driving, or they love meeting new people, or they simply want to stay busy and be out and about instead of sitting at home and getting bored/depressed. Basically, I don't buy the "so many people wouldn't continue doing it if they weren't making good money" argument.
- IanCal 7y ago
  I'm not sure how things work in America, but in the UK employment does not mean or require full time work or even fixed hours. We also have a lower status of "worker" which has fewer rights / fewer responsibilities.

microcolonel 7y ago

Do they not require independent contractors to contribute premiums for that? That's how it works here in Canada (same for mandatory pensions/"social security").

kevingadd 7y ago
If you're an independent contractor here you're expected to pay into the pools yourself, yes.