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This is such a peculiar, and I have to say, snobby, criticism - especially towards the last part of the article. The Gioconda is too famous and doesn't deserve

This is such a peculiar, and I have to say, snobby, criticism - especially towards the last part of the article. The Gioconda is too famous and doesn't deserve the crowd it gets? Maybe. Sounds like a subjective judgement. People are left disappointed? Maybe. But anyone who does a 10 second search for "is mona lisa worth seeing" should already be aware of that. If they still choose to do that, why should we stop them? (or force them into an overly commercialized pen that deprives a piece of art of its dignity) By all means, the Louvre should optimize the queuing experience. But as the author admitted, the Louvre doens't have a space capacity issue. And in my books anything that gets more people into a museum of any sort is a good thing.

ghaff 7y ago
The article is sort of a whine even if I also sort of agree with it. The crush around the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, a museum with so many great works of art, is really a bit silly. And, if the Mona Lisa weren't famous in no small part for being famous (and, admittedly, for being one of a relatively modest number of works by Da Vinci), it's unlikely that most people would give the small portrait a second glance. Now, knowing it's famous, one can appreciate some of the justification for it. But it still wouldn't make at least my list of favorite paintings.
- mcv 7y ago
  I have the feeling a lot of people go visit a popular thing just because they know it's popular, and not for its actual art, meaning, experience or whatever. I actually tend to avoid the most crowded attractions. Been to Paris several times, but never been to the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre (but the Arc de Triomphe and the Montmartre are cool places to visit).
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I've always deliberately avoided the Eiffel Tower myself. The Louvre is very much worth visiting even if it's largely frozen in time and the most exquisite works are sort of overwhelmed by the vast numbers of technically excellent but IMO often not terribly interesting paintings. (How many Renaissance Madonna and Childs can you look at in a day?) TBH, a more curated Louvre would be a more interesting museum. That said, if I'm having to choose, I'm probably going to the Musee d'Orsay rather than the Louvre.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    Exactly! That's why I use Haskell instead of JavaScript, and Arch Linux instead of MacOS. Those other things are too popular and people use them without understanding the real _meaning_ of Computer Science.
  - notJim 7y ago
    FWIW, the Eiffel Tower is cool as hell up close. I find it really neat to be able to see the structure of a fairly large building up close. TBH I was more "disappointed" by the Arc de Triomphe.
- downvoted 7y ago
  And I can appreciate that even when it's not my favorite, it can still be beautiful. The fact is, as an artist, it's hard not to look at paintings by Picasso or Van Gogh and think, "Wow, they had such a big impact on me. I wanted to be like that." That's part of the magic of the artist's brush — that it can so easily and effortlessly paint such a dramatic scene that you, the viewer, think you can be the same person as the artist. As an artist, I'm very aware of how big the influence of an artist is. And as an individual, I'm extremely aware of how much an artist can influence me. That's why I'm very interested in people who can have the biggest impact on other people through their art.
seszett 7y ago
Although I don't like the tone of the article, it does have a point. Whether or not most of the Louvre visitors are there only for Mona Lisa, most will want to at least see it, whereas the rest of the museum is diverse enough to never be too crowded. Moving that painting elsewhere would probably make it an immensely better experience for visitors who aren't coming for it. The entrance queues would not be that long, and past these queues, as long as you avoid that room the museum is more than large enough not to be crowded. So let those who want to see the painting see it, and let those who want to the see the rest of the museum see it. People can do both of course, but there's no need to ask people who just want to see Mona Lisa to navigate the museum.
- ghaff 7y ago
  There's definitely a lot of dripping condescension in that piece. That said, yeah, I think it's substantially correct. If the Mona Lisa is going to attract such outsized crowds--and, in my experience, they are outsized compared to a work of art in any other museum I've been to--you'd do both the art and the crowds a favor by separating it and putting it in an environment to optimize viewing and provide context/educational background.
- Frost1x 7y ago
  I'm not that familiar with museum design or their funding mechanisms, but for logistical purposes, sometimes if you want a lot of foot traffic in your building, you make people navigate around to see the "crown jewels" so-to-speak which forces/exposes them to other items of interest you want to "sell" (taxpayers, government, private market...). If you need to count beans for some government funding agency to justify your budget, this is a way to inflate bean count and prop up underperforming aspects. As long as it's a situation that isn't incredibly wasteful and done in good taste, I support it--though this is of course highly subjective. If you break that number up so it's easier to see why people visit (e.g., separating the Mona Lisa), it may inadvertantly give justification to cut funding to the other aspects in many modern mindsets. Mixing the artworks up artificially inflates other works foot traffic that, I would argue, is a positive form of trickery for society (preservation and education of the arts, something important and often underfunded).
wink 7y ago
I've never in my life searched for "is X worth seeing", the thought hasn't even crossed my mind. That is maybe not very smart, but before I see it I can't decide it, why would I trust random strangers on the internet? :)
- CrazyStat 7y ago
  Do you also ignore reviews on Amazon etc. because why trust random strangers on the internet? "Is X worth seeing" is essentially searching for reviews of an experience.
  - vanattab 7y ago
    No I ignore reviews on Amazon etc. because why trust random BOTs and paid reviewers on the internet.
    - kadoban 7y ago
      Because there's not many other choices, and the other choices are way more work. And because as a general guide they seem to work pretty well, especially if you read through them with some small amount of care.
- jiveturkey 7y ago
  Is the popeye's chicken sandwich worth waiting for?
  - JasonFruit 7y ago
    Yes. They're amazing.
paulcole 7y ago
> This is such a peculiar, and I have to say, snobby, criticism This is exactly why I thought it fit so well on HN.
- dang 7y ago
  It's in poor taste to superciliously diss the community while participating in it. Since you're commenting here, you're as much "HN" as anyone else is. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20diss%20community&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  - paulcole 7y ago
    I wouldn’t want to be part of any community that would have me as a member.
hqrlk 7y ago
In the era of the Internet, you don't even have to look up "is mona lisa worth seeing". Just by looking up "mona lisa" you can see what the painting looks like. Voilà. On the other hand just the fact that most people who go there to see it take pictures of it with their mobile phones means that they don't even go to the Louvre to see it, they just want to show others they've seen it.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Or maybe they want to do both.
bsder 7y ago
> But as the author admitted, the Louvre doens't have a space capacity issue. And in my books anything that gets more people into a museum of any sort is a good thing. They really need to do the grocery store thing and make you walk past everything in the museum before letting you into the Mona Lisa at the far back.
- brewdad 7y ago
  They pretty much already do this. The end result is tourists literally running to the room the Mona Lisa is in once they get inside the museum. It's madness.

ghaff 7y ago

The article is sort of a whine even if I also sort of agree with it. The crush around the Mona Lisa in the Louvre, a museum with so many great works of art, is really a bit silly. And, if the Mona Lisa weren't famous in no small part for being famous (and, admittedly, for being one of a relatively modest number of works by Da Vinci), it's unlikely that most people would give the small portrait a second glance. Now, knowing it's famous, one can appreciate some of the justification for it. But it still wouldn't make at least my list of favorite paintings.

mcv 7y ago
I have the feeling a lot of people go visit a popular thing just because they know it's popular, and not for its actual art, meaning, experience or whatever. I actually tend to avoid the most crowded attractions. Been to Paris several times, but never been to the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre (but the Arc de Triomphe and the Montmartre are cool places to visit).
- ghaff 7y ago
  I've always deliberately avoided the Eiffel Tower myself. The Louvre is very much worth visiting even if it's largely frozen in time and the most exquisite works are sort of overwhelmed by the vast numbers of technically excellent but IMO often not terribly interesting paintings. (How many Renaissance Madonna and Childs can you look at in a day?) TBH, a more curated Louvre would be a more interesting museum. That said, if I'm having to choose, I'm probably going to the Musee d'Orsay rather than the Louvre.
- fortran77 7y ago
  Exactly! That's why I use Haskell instead of JavaScript, and Arch Linux instead of MacOS. Those other things are too popular and people use them without understanding the real _meaning_ of Computer Science.
- notJim 7y ago
  FWIW, the Eiffel Tower is cool as hell up close. I find it really neat to be able to see the structure of a fairly large building up close. TBH I was more "disappointed" by the Arc de Triomphe.
downvoted 7y ago
And I can appreciate that even when it's not my favorite, it can still be beautiful. The fact is, as an artist, it's hard not to look at paintings by Picasso or Van Gogh and think, "Wow, they had such a big impact on me. I wanted to be like that." That's part of the magic of the artist's brush — that it can so easily and effortlessly paint such a dramatic scene that you, the viewer, think you can be the same person as the artist. As an artist, I'm very aware of how big the influence of an artist is. And as an individual, I'm extremely aware of how much an artist can influence me. That's why I'm very interested in people who can have the biggest impact on other people through their art.

seszett 7y ago

Although I don't like the tone of the article, it does have a point. Whether or not most of the Louvre visitors are there only for Mona Lisa, most will want to at least see it, whereas the rest of the museum is diverse enough to never be too crowded. Moving that painting elsewhere would probably make it an immensely better experience for visitors who aren't coming for it. The entrance queues would not be that long, and past these queues, as long as you avoid that room the museum is more than large enough not to be crowded. So let those who want to see the painting see it, and let those who want to the see the rest of the museum see it. People can do both of course, but there's no need to ask people who just want to see Mona Lisa to navigate the museum.

ghaff 7y ago
There's definitely a lot of dripping condescension in that piece. That said, yeah, I think it's substantially correct. If the Mona Lisa is going to attract such outsized crowds--and, in my experience, they are outsized compared to a work of art in any other museum I've been to--you'd do both the art and the crowds a favor by separating it and putting it in an environment to optimize viewing and provide context/educational background.
Frost1x 7y ago
I'm not that familiar with museum design or their funding mechanisms, but for logistical purposes, sometimes if you want a lot of foot traffic in your building, you make people navigate around to see the "crown jewels" so-to-speak which forces/exposes them to other items of interest you want to "sell" (taxpayers, government, private market...). If you need to count beans for some government funding agency to justify your budget, this is a way to inflate bean count and prop up underperforming aspects. As long as it's a situation that isn't incredibly wasteful and done in good taste, I support it--though this is of course highly subjective. If you break that number up so it's easier to see why people visit (e.g., separating the Mona Lisa), it may inadvertantly give justification to cut funding to the other aspects in many modern mindsets. Mixing the artworks up artificially inflates other works foot traffic that, I would argue, is a positive form of trickery for society (preservation and education of the arts, something important and often underfunded).

wink 7y ago

I've never in my life searched for "is X worth seeing", the thought hasn't even crossed my mind. That is maybe not very smart, but before I see it I can't decide it, why would I trust random strangers on the internet? :)

CrazyStat 7y ago
Do you also ignore reviews on Amazon etc. because why trust random strangers on the internet? "Is X worth seeing" is essentially searching for reviews of an experience.
- vanattab 7y ago
  No I ignore reviews on Amazon etc. because why trust random BOTs and paid reviewers on the internet.
  - kadoban 7y ago
    Because there's not many other choices, and the other choices are way more work. And because as a general guide they seem to work pretty well, especially if you read through them with some small amount of care.
jiveturkey 7y ago
Is the popeye's chicken sandwich worth waiting for?
- JasonFruit 7y ago
  Yes. They're amazing.

paulcole 7y ago

> This is such a peculiar, and I have to say, snobby, criticism This is exactly why I thought it fit so well on HN.

dang 7y ago
It's in poor taste to superciliously diss the community while participating in it. Since you're commenting here, you're as much "HN" as anyone else is. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20diss%20community&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- paulcole 7y ago
  I wouldn’t want to be part of any community that would have me as a member.

hqrlk 7y ago

In the era of the Internet, you don't even have to look up "is mona lisa worth seeing". Just by looking up "mona lisa" you can see what the painting looks like. Voilà. On the other hand just the fact that most people who go there to see it take pictures of it with their mobile phones means that they don't even go to the Louvre to see it, they just want to show others they've seen it.

icebraining 7y ago
Or maybe they want to do both.

bsder 7y ago

> But as the author admitted, the Louvre doens't have a space capacity issue. And in my books anything that gets more people into a museum of any sort is a good thing. They really need to do the grocery store thing and make you walk past everything in the museum before letting you into the Mona Lisa at the far back.

brewdad 7y ago
They pretty much already do this. The end result is tourists literally running to the room the Mona Lisa is in once they get inside the museum. It's madness.