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This is a thread where Americans are debating whether we should "flatten" a billion people via nuclear bombardment because they don't govern themselves the way

This is a thread where Americans are debating whether we should "flatten" a billion people via nuclear bombardment because they don't govern themselves the way we think they should. I'd pick a different spot to call us morally superior. Like, any other thread.

munmaek 7y ago
Are we? I’ve seen a reasonable discussion so far on policy and ethics. There will always be trolls. I never said anyone was completely superior. But in this specific case.. we are, because American citizens (and their families) don’t disappear for criticizing their government or for refusing to spy on other countries.
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  That's awfully cherrypicked if you're going to limit things to specifically political prisoners. We have LOTS more prisoners, btw, 4x as many per capita, with a nasty racial bias. And that's before you get into all the dead Arabs and Latinos who dared to have a government that wasn't freedomy enough for us. What's your exchange rate between those? Do you value the tiny number of people speaking out against the state's legitimacy that much, when were talking millions of other innocent lives? Becoming suddenly sure that we MUST kneecap our rival for totally sound moral reasons is soooo American. I feel like I'm living in groundhog day and nobody else can tell.
  - munmaek 7y ago
    So because the US government isn’t perfect, US based companies and US citizens are not allowed to espouse opinions on policy? I can’t change what my government has done, and I can’t really change what it’s doing besides voting, but I can have my own opinion.
    - yourbandsucks 7y ago
      You can have an opinion, of course. A mob opinion that our chief rival must be kneecapped in the name of freedom and justice is super suspect, is what I'm saying. Americans want American hegemony, and that's fine, but please don't preach about values while you're doing it.
      - munmaek 7y ago
        > must be kneecapped in the name of freedom and justice I think we can talk without hyperbole, no? >Americans want American hegemony, Sorry if that's what you think.
        yourbandsucks 7y ago
        There's a pretty significant online mob who really want to split HK off of China. I'd call 'kneecap' reasonably apt. As far as hegemony.. I'm sorry you don't believe that :) Why is specifically China the Big Bad Guy if it's not about hegemony? Why aren't we focused on cleaning our own house first if it's about justice and freedom? Like, if this isn't about power, we could at least stop actively supporting the horrible regimes that are useful to us? That seems like a pretty easy thing to do. Why hasn't it happened?
        munmaek 7y ago
        > here's a pretty significant online mob who really want to split HK off of China There are significant online mobs dedicated to anything. That's not really a convincing argument. People who are advocating independence don't understand the situation, nor do they even understand what the protestors actually want (it's not independence). > Why aren't we focused on cleaning our own house first if it's about justice and freedom? It's almost as if America isn't comprised solely of 1 person! Not to mention, why can't people focus on both? This argument is basically "america has issues, so it can't point fingers". Not only is this an unconvincing argument, it doesn't make sense because what is "america"? Is it me, a singular US citizen? Is it Gitlab, a company headquartered in America with ~50% American employees? Is it just the US govt? > Why hasn't it happened? Because people aren't informed and don't vote based on that. That is another complex discussion in and of itself, but most people that I know are against it, so I don't really get what your argument is.
  - president 7y ago
    Where you're wrong is that while both countries have skeletons in their closets, only one of them is blatant, espouses and has no qualms about kidnapping/murdering/torturing their own people, and is many factors more evil despite us not even knowing the full extent of their actions due to the opaqueness of their government. Hint, it's China. Last time I heard, the US doesn't have a Nazi-era concentration camp in 2019 enslaving 2,000,000 minorities, harvesting their organs, torturing them, erasing their culture, desecrating their graves, and forcing the women to marry into Han families. The irony is that you can only make these ignorant attacks on America because there is freedom of speech in the US while in China, you'd be silenced the moment you hit send.

munmaek 7y ago

Are we? I’ve seen a reasonable discussion so far on policy and ethics. There will always be trolls. I never said anyone was completely superior. But in this specific case.. we are, because American citizens (and their families) don’t disappear for criticizing their government or for refusing to spy on other countries.

yourbandsucks 7y ago
That's awfully cherrypicked if you're going to limit things to specifically political prisoners. We have LOTS more prisoners, btw, 4x as many per capita, with a nasty racial bias. And that's before you get into all the dead Arabs and Latinos who dared to have a government that wasn't freedomy enough for us. What's your exchange rate between those? Do you value the tiny number of people speaking out against the state's legitimacy that much, when were talking millions of other innocent lives? Becoming suddenly sure that we MUST kneecap our rival for totally sound moral reasons is soooo American. I feel like I'm living in groundhog day and nobody else can tell.
- munmaek 7y ago
  So because the US government isn’t perfect, US based companies and US citizens are not allowed to espouse opinions on policy? I can’t change what my government has done, and I can’t really change what it’s doing besides voting, but I can have my own opinion.
  - yourbandsucks 7y ago
    You can have an opinion, of course. A mob opinion that our chief rival must be kneecapped in the name of freedom and justice is super suspect, is what I'm saying. Americans want American hegemony, and that's fine, but please don't preach about values while you're doing it.
    - munmaek 7y ago
      > must be kneecapped in the name of freedom and justice I think we can talk without hyperbole, no? >Americans want American hegemony, Sorry if that's what you think.
      - yourbandsucks 7y ago
        There's a pretty significant online mob who really want to split HK off of China. I'd call 'kneecap' reasonably apt. As far as hegemony.. I'm sorry you don't believe that :) Why is specifically China the Big Bad Guy if it's not about hegemony? Why aren't we focused on cleaning our own house first if it's about justice and freedom? Like, if this isn't about power, we could at least stop actively supporting the horrible regimes that are useful to us? That seems like a pretty easy thing to do. Why hasn't it happened?
        munmaek 7y ago
        > here's a pretty significant online mob who really want to split HK off of China There are significant online mobs dedicated to anything. That's not really a convincing argument. People who are advocating independence don't understand the situation, nor do they even understand what the protestors actually want (it's not independence). > Why aren't we focused on cleaning our own house first if it's about justice and freedom? It's almost as if America isn't comprised solely of 1 person! Not to mention, why can't people focus on both? This argument is basically "america has issues, so it can't point fingers". Not only is this an unconvincing argument, it doesn't make sense because what is "america"? Is it me, a singular US citizen? Is it Gitlab, a company headquartered in America with ~50% American employees? Is it just the US govt? > Why hasn't it happened? Because people aren't informed and don't vote based on that. That is another complex discussion in and of itself, but most people that I know are against it, so I don't really get what your argument is.
- president 7y ago
  Where you're wrong is that while both countries have skeletons in their closets, only one of them is blatant, espouses and has no qualms about kidnapping/murdering/torturing their own people, and is many factors more evil despite us not even knowing the full extent of their actions due to the opaqueness of their government. Hint, it's China. Last time I heard, the US doesn't have a Nazi-era concentration camp in 2019 enslaving 2,000,000 minorities, harvesting their organs, torturing them, erasing their culture, desecrating their graves, and forcing the women to marry into Han families. The irony is that you can only make these ignorant attacks on America because there is freedom of speech in the US while in China, you'd be silenced the moment you hit send.