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>Breja alleges that on March 12, 2019, in an executive team meeting, he learned that some batches of mint e-liquid had been found to be contaminated. Approximat

>Breja alleges that on March 12, 2019, in an executive team meeting, he learned that some batches of mint e-liquid had been found to be contaminated. Approximately 250,000 mint refill kits, the equivalent of one million pods, were manufactured with the contaminated e-liquid, shipped to retailers, and sold to customers. I really wish the article detailed what exactly the contaminant is, especially considering the current hysteria over vaping. >That same day, Breja “protested Juul’s refusal to issue a product recall for the contaminated pods, or at a minimum issue a public health and safety notice to consumers.” Then-chief finance officer Tim Danaher reportedly “questioned his financial acumen,” since these suggestions would lead to billions of dollars in lost sales and hurt Juul’s then-$38 billion valuation, according to the lawsuit. Danaher, whose departure was announced by the company on Tuesday, allegedly told Breja that he should remember his loyalty to Juul. It's sad that there are so many people who would knowingly cause harm to others, just all for the opportunity to make just a little bit more money. They were already making money, and I'm pretty sure this debacle will cost them far more money in the long run than just doing a voluntary recall and coming clean. No better than the tobacco companies that came decades before.

mc32 7y ago
That’s why these things should be regulated by the FDA and manufactured with validated systems with obligation to report any variance, etc, as any OTC drug company would have to (as well as Rx, of course).
- crb002 7y ago
  Posting bond should be sufficient. The bond company would do all kinds of 3rd party testing to cover their investment, far more than any agency would.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  The FDA has regulated Juul since 2016.
  - mc32 7y ago
    The products they currently sell are not FDA approved. They have till May 2020 to comply. I’m curious if their MFG line is cGMP compliant. It may be, but bad batches would say procedure Sops etc were either not in effect, not available or ignored.
frozenport 7y ago
Wow, are you surprised that a company those product does little more than addict you, whose buisness is primarily preying on children, would put profits over consumers?
hanniabu 7y ago
> It's sad that there are so many people who would knowingly cause harm to others, just all for the opportunity to make just a little bit more money. This is why we are where we are with the state of Earth's health. > Danaher....allegedly told Breja that he should remember his loyalty to Juul What's with all this cult behavior? I'll never understand it. It reminds of frat culture.
- pstuart 7y ago
  > What's with all this cult behavior? I'll never understand it. It reminds of frat culture. We are in many ways still tribal primitives with advanced technology.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Because it gives control - and the frat business link has been infamous since at least the 80s and had many ancestral organizations.
gatherhunterer 7y ago
> No better than the tobacco companies that came decades before. I can’t believe people are this gullible. They are the tobacco companies. Juul is owned by Phillip Morris and all of that nicotine liquid comes from the same tobacco.
- crashbunny 7y ago
  Juul might be big tobacco, but Juul or any tobacco company didn't invent vaping or make it popular. Juul jumped on after it was already popular and allegedly marketed it to kids. For a long-time big tobacco saw vaping as a threat to their business, they worked and probably still work to have it banned.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    > Juul jumped on after it was already popular and allegedly marketed it to kids. this is sorta unfair, imo. their advertising practices may be sketchy but the product itself is quite innovative. even today, I don't know of any vape products on the market that give as good of a user experience in such a small form factor.
  - gatherhunterer 7y ago
    > For a long-time big tobacco saw vaping as a threat to their business, they worked and probably still work to have it banned. When you vape you are using tobacco. Selling vape liquid is selling tobacco. It’s not competitive in any sense, it is a new brand for the same product. Why are the addicts so unwilling to recognize that?
    - soylentcola 7y ago
      The "addicts" (as you call them) wanted a safer way to ingest the active ingredient in tobacco. Nicotine on its own isn't much worse for your health than caffeine, but having to inhale burning tobacco leaves to ingest it leads to all sorts of health problems. People figured out that you could heat up a solution of pure nicotine and glycerins to create a mist that is easily absorbed when inhaled (but didn't include the tars, carbon monoxide, or the host of other byproducts of combustion that lead to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases). Obviously it's not as ideal as breathing nothing but pure, Spaceballs-style "Perri-air" but it's like telling someone not to bother with a massive harm reduction because it doesn't eliminate 100% of potential health risks. So while the nicotine is likely derived from tobacco (just because it's the easiest source), using a nicotine mist inhaler is hardly the same as inhaling the smoke of burning tobacco. What started out mainly in the realm of tinkerers and curious people looking for a better way to wean off nicotine or minimize the health risks of smoking has been co-opted (at least as far as the mainstream discussion goes) by cig companies and those who would seek to become their successors.
lubesGordi 7y ago
The company that sent out the bad batch of liquid is interesting. Alternative Ingredients, Inc., who's website is down at the moment, is also otherwise known as Mother Murphy's , who brands themselves as a food flavoring company. The president of the company is David Murphy who's linkedIn tells the whole story. Basically Mother Murphy's has been around for a while in the Winston/Salem area, doing flavoring for cigarette companies. I guess that shouldn't be surprising.

mc32 7y ago

That’s why these things should be regulated by the FDA and manufactured with validated systems with obligation to report any variance, etc, as any OTC drug company would have to (as well as Rx, of course).

crb002 7y ago
Posting bond should be sufficient. The bond company would do all kinds of 3rd party testing to cover their investment, far more than any agency would.
Alex3917 7y ago
The FDA has regulated Juul since 2016.
- mc32 7y ago
  The products they currently sell are not FDA approved. They have till May 2020 to comply. I’m curious if their MFG line is cGMP compliant. It may be, but bad batches would say procedure Sops etc were either not in effect, not available or ignored.

frozenport 7y ago

Wow, are you surprised that a company those product does little more than addict you, whose buisness is primarily preying on children, would put profits over consumers?

hanniabu 7y ago

> It's sad that there are so many people who would knowingly cause harm to others, just all for the opportunity to make just a little bit more money. This is why we are where we are with the state of Earth's health. > Danaher....allegedly told Breja that he should remember his loyalty to Juul What's with all this cult behavior? I'll never understand it. It reminds of frat culture.

pstuart 7y ago
> What's with all this cult behavior? I'll never understand it. It reminds of frat culture. We are in many ways still tribal primitives with advanced technology.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Because it gives control - and the frat business link has been infamous since at least the 80s and had many ancestral organizations.

gatherhunterer 7y ago

> No better than the tobacco companies that came decades before. I can’t believe people are this gullible. They are the tobacco companies. Juul is owned by Phillip Morris and all of that nicotine liquid comes from the same tobacco.

crashbunny 7y ago
Juul might be big tobacco, but Juul or any tobacco company didn't invent vaping or make it popular. Juul jumped on after it was already popular and allegedly marketed it to kids. For a long-time big tobacco saw vaping as a threat to their business, they worked and probably still work to have it banned.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  > Juul jumped on after it was already popular and allegedly marketed it to kids. this is sorta unfair, imo. their advertising practices may be sketchy but the product itself is quite innovative. even today, I don't know of any vape products on the market that give as good of a user experience in such a small form factor.
- gatherhunterer 7y ago
  > For a long-time big tobacco saw vaping as a threat to their business, they worked and probably still work to have it banned. When you vape you are using tobacco. Selling vape liquid is selling tobacco. It’s not competitive in any sense, it is a new brand for the same product. Why are the addicts so unwilling to recognize that?
  - soylentcola 7y ago
    The "addicts" (as you call them) wanted a safer way to ingest the active ingredient in tobacco. Nicotine on its own isn't much worse for your health than caffeine, but having to inhale burning tobacco leaves to ingest it leads to all sorts of health problems. People figured out that you could heat up a solution of pure nicotine and glycerins to create a mist that is easily absorbed when inhaled (but didn't include the tars, carbon monoxide, or the host of other byproducts of combustion that lead to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases). Obviously it's not as ideal as breathing nothing but pure, Spaceballs-style "Perri-air" but it's like telling someone not to bother with a massive harm reduction because it doesn't eliminate 100% of potential health risks. So while the nicotine is likely derived from tobacco (just because it's the easiest source), using a nicotine mist inhaler is hardly the same as inhaling the smoke of burning tobacco. What started out mainly in the realm of tinkerers and curious people looking for a better way to wean off nicotine or minimize the health risks of smoking has been co-opted (at least as far as the mainstream discussion goes) by cig companies and those who would seek to become their successors.

lubesGordi 7y ago

The company that sent out the bad batch of liquid is interesting. Alternative Ingredients, Inc., who's website is down at the moment, is also otherwise known as Mother Murphy's , who brands themselves as a food flavoring company. The president of the company is David Murphy who's linkedIn tells the whole story. Basically Mother Murphy's has been around for a while in the Winston/Salem area, doing flavoring for cigarette companies. I guess that shouldn't be surprising.