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The illogical adoption of React must not be questioned, even in the face of its poor performance and ugly syntax. One must never note that perhaps it is simply

by dosy 7y ago

The illogical adoption of React must not be questioned, even in the face of its poor performance and ugly syntax. One must never note that perhaps it is simply a cultish adoration, or faddish adherence to popular mass opinions, that leads to "popularity" mattering more than practicality. So what if React is massively bloated, stupid syntax, can't use regular HTML, can't use regular CSS, can't use async/await, have to do everything a special way...literally, SO WHAT. It IS REACT! OMG behold it's glory. It came from FB, maybe if we use it we can scale like FB! Omg the idiocy. But keep on slavishly following the next front-end dev trend. I can't tell whether front-end dev culture is a massive circle-jerk or cargo cult. And don't mention the irrational hate attempted to be heaped onto anyone who dares question the programmatic thinking of the official line of the React Appreciation Society.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Is there anything more in-bad-faith than assuming everyone who uses X is just an idiot, trend-follower, or beginner? Unlike you, the Enlightened One? Why not just ask people why they use X? Plenty of veteran developers on HN could tell you why they like React despite a sea of alternatives, but it's easier to just cast aspersions instead of understanding. It's a shame to see this on HN which is supposedly a community of craftspeople who build things. If you can only come up with insults for why another group of people do something, it's time for you to get up off your ass and ask someone in that group. And this extends beyond just engineering, it's how you understand other people in general.
- dosy 7y ago
  That's a bit mean, don't you think? See I was addressing a group of people but you're directly saying that to me. Hmmm, well, why don't you take your own advice pal and ask me why I think so? Oh, that's right, I guess you were just trying to insult people rather than understand. Hahahaa. But anyway, I am thoroughly enjoying your attempt at self-righteousness. Keep working on that, you've nearly got it. And I'm very grateful to you for proving my point. You may be old, but are you sure I don't understand people and you do? I don't think "bad faith" means what you think it means, but I take it by the vehemence of your response that I struck a nerve. And I think you might just be projecting. See, I think you're angry because you must use React, and me reminding you other choices exist, which you nevertheless cannot access, reminds you of that embarrassing lack of freedom. So you choose to double down on defending something you don't really want anyway. But I guess you don't really understand how you feel about it, so you just project and blame somebody else. If you didn't like React, would you ever say no to an offer that insisted on it? See, I don't think you would. But I have. I wanna work with what I like. I think if you really loved it and knew why you wouldn't be so perturbed. I'm just curious, why no submissions? Why anonymous? Would you talk so big, if everyone knew your name? Or are you only a loud mouth if you've got no skin in the game, really? Anyway, have a good day thinkin about that, pal and if you wanna know more please read my answer for "debuzzybee" and my comment she linked.
ng12 7y ago
> can't use regular HTML, can't use regular CSS, can't use async/await I'm pretty sure I'm being baited here but all of these are categorically false.
debuzzybee 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20092446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20092446
- dosy 7y ago
  Thanks for reminding people, really. But I guess I don't get the sympathy for abusive comments against my work unless I'm part of some mainstream group. Which just proves that it's not the so-called morality of commenters is not really based on morality but just confirmation bias / groupthink and preserving those group mass delusions. Anyway, I appreciate you reiterating this earlier point I made. I think it's interesting how important "group identity" is here. If I attack a group of people "React faddites" as I did here, everyone loses their minds. But if someone attacks my work, everyone's cool with it. People are more keen to defend the group than the individual. Interesting. It's not really about morality, but everyone wants to clothe it in that...I wonder why the group identity is so important? I tend to think it's compensation for / a substitute for actual merit. We know React is not great, so we have to double down on the community of idiots parroting the official line that it is great. It's funny to me. I can have my opinion about the tools I wanna work with. But if they don't coincide with the mainstream tools, clearly I am "wrong" and just "don't understand". But if I criticise the mainstream tool users as being the ones who don't understand, again, I'm "wrong" and "don't understand". That sort of echo-chamber, self-protective / non-introspective fear of criticism and double standards is not a great thing, and probably another reason why React is so weak. If it was really strong, it could be robust against robust criticism? But it doesn't show a lot of confidence for a massive group of self-confessed React acolytes to go bats when someone dares question them. It shows someone has stepped on a point they know fear might be true. I mean, for a whole group of people who devote so much energy to use this thing, I understand why they'd be angry if it was true and someone pointed it out, but it's funny to me how the group can be insecure about its choice, and have chosen badly, even when so many people have thought about it and are invested in it. Madness of crowds, I guess. Popularity is no guarantee of quality.
tomhoward 7y ago
I've been building websites in some form for at least 23 years, and professionally on-and-off for over 18. React is the first framework that allows me quickly build rich web-apps that load fast, perform fast, and have a structure and order to them that keeps them enjoyable to work on as they get bigger. I have no loyalty to Facebook and I've tried pretty much every major framework or library that's gained traction in the past 15 years.

by dosy 7y ago

hombre_fatal 7y ago

Is there anything more in-bad-faith than assuming everyone who uses X is just an idiot, trend-follower, or beginner? Unlike you, the Enlightened One? Why not just ask people why they use X? Plenty of veteran developers on HN could tell you why they like React despite a sea of alternatives, but it's easier to just cast aspersions instead of understanding. It's a shame to see this on HN which is supposedly a community of craftspeople who build things. If you can only come up with insults for why another group of people do something, it's time for you to get up off your ass and ask someone in that group. And this extends beyond just engineering, it's how you understand other people in general.

dosy 7y ago
That's a bit mean, don't you think? See I was addressing a group of people but you're directly saying that to me. Hmmm, well, why don't you take your own advice pal and ask me why I think so? Oh, that's right, I guess you were just trying to insult people rather than understand. Hahahaa. But anyway, I am thoroughly enjoying your attempt at self-righteousness. Keep working on that, you've nearly got it. And I'm very grateful to you for proving my point. You may be old, but are you sure I don't understand people and you do? I don't think "bad faith" means what you think it means, but I take it by the vehemence of your response that I struck a nerve. And I think you might just be projecting. See, I think you're angry because you must use React, and me reminding you other choices exist, which you nevertheless cannot access, reminds you of that embarrassing lack of freedom. So you choose to double down on defending something you don't really want anyway. But I guess you don't really understand how you feel about it, so you just project and blame somebody else. If you didn't like React, would you ever say no to an offer that insisted on it? See, I don't think you would. But I have. I wanna work with what I like. I think if you really loved it and knew why you wouldn't be so perturbed. I'm just curious, why no submissions? Why anonymous? Would you talk so big, if everyone knew your name? Or are you only a loud mouth if you've got no skin in the game, really? Anyway, have a good day thinkin about that, pal and if you wanna know more please read my answer for "debuzzybee" and my comment she linked.

ng12 7y ago

> can't use regular HTML, can't use regular CSS, can't use async/await I'm pretty sure I'm being baited here but all of these are categorically false.

debuzzybee 7y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20092446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20092446

dosy 7y ago
Thanks for reminding people, really. But I guess I don't get the sympathy for abusive comments against my work unless I'm part of some mainstream group. Which just proves that it's not the so-called morality of commenters is not really based on morality but just confirmation bias / groupthink and preserving those group mass delusions. Anyway, I appreciate you reiterating this earlier point I made. I think it's interesting how important "group identity" is here. If I attack a group of people "React faddites" as I did here, everyone loses their minds. But if someone attacks my work, everyone's cool with it. People are more keen to defend the group than the individual. Interesting. It's not really about morality, but everyone wants to clothe it in that...I wonder why the group identity is so important? I tend to think it's compensation for / a substitute for actual merit. We know React is not great, so we have to double down on the community of idiots parroting the official line that it is great. It's funny to me. I can have my opinion about the tools I wanna work with. But if they don't coincide with the mainstream tools, clearly I am "wrong" and just "don't understand". But if I criticise the mainstream tool users as being the ones who don't understand, again, I'm "wrong" and "don't understand". That sort of echo-chamber, self-protective / non-introspective fear of criticism and double standards is not a great thing, and probably another reason why React is so weak. If it was really strong, it could be robust against robust criticism? But it doesn't show a lot of confidence for a massive group of self-confessed React acolytes to go bats when someone dares question them. It shows someone has stepped on a point they know fear might be true. I mean, for a whole group of people who devote so much energy to use this thing, I understand why they'd be angry if it was true and someone pointed it out, but it's funny to me how the group can be insecure about its choice, and have chosen badly, even when so many people have thought about it and are invested in it. Madness of crowds, I guess. Popularity is no guarantee of quality.

tomhoward 7y ago

I've been building websites in some form for at least 23 years, and professionally on-and-off for over 18. React is the first framework that allows me quickly build rich web-apps that load fast, perform fast, and have a structure and order to them that keeps them enjoyable to work on as they get bigger. I have no loyalty to Facebook and I've tried pretty much every major framework or library that's gained traction in the past 15 years.