6 ms·

What do you mean by "dark patterns"? I'm not familiar with that term

kennethologist 7y ago
Dark Patterns are tricks used in websites and apps that make you do things that you didn't mean to, like buying or signing up for something. See more examples here: https://www.darkpatterns.org/ https://www.darkpatterns.org/
- jwc1 7y ago
  It's amazing how once you put a label on something, you start noticing it _everywhere_. Someone pointed out "confirmshaming" to me a few years ago...and since then I feel like it shows up on > 50% of the sites I visit. https://www.darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/confirmshaming https://www.darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/confirmsh...
  - cm2012 7y ago
    How is confirm shaming a dark pattern? It puts more factual detail near the yes or no options so people know what they're agreeing to or declining.
    - lbotos 7y ago
      It's emotional manipulation. Confirm shaming uses fear. If I'm cancelling amazon prime because it "costs too much" but you say "are you sure you want to miss out on all the fast shipping" someone who is easily manipulated may continue to subscribe because they are weak willed. You could instead ask: "Why are you cancelling?": - Cost - Don't use it enough - ... - Other (please specify:)
    - joegahona 7y ago
      > How is confirm shaming a dark pattern? It puts more factual detail near the yes or no options so people know what they're agreeing to or declining. In its best form, perhaps. But more likely than not it looks something like this: [ ] YES, I want to fight racism by subscribing to CrappyPublisher.net's twice-daily newsletter! [ ] NO, I am a racist (and also a pedophile)!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dekhn 7y ago
Would you like to learn more about dark patterns? YES or LATER?
- joezydeco 7y ago
  47 OTHER PEOPLE ARE REPLYING TO YOUR COMMENT RIGHT NOW
- opportune 7y ago
  I would like you to remind me every day until I submit to your annoyance, I mean tomorrow please
jhncls 7y ago
Ben Edelman (Harvard, Microsoft) published a study [0] about how dark patterns in the online travel industry help them reach margins up to 25%. He also mentions the consolidation where most well-known booking sites are owned by just two large groups. [0] http://www.benedelman.org/impact-of-ota-bias-and-consolidation-on-consumers/ http://www.benedelman.org/impact-of-ota-bias-and-consolidati...
- rhizome 7y ago
  Sounds like travel agents are becoming more and more cost effective every day. I mean, what does the Hyatt website do that a phone call 30 years ago couldn't?
tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
Deceiving, tricking and pressuring users into taking actions. For example, LinkedIn having a flow that has an e-mail and password box, which will get a less attentive user to just re-enter their LinkedIn credentials. But it's actually a phishing form for your e-mail, so if your LinkedIn and e-mail password is the same, you have now "consented" to have your address book scraped and your contacts spammed. Or, in the case of Booking.com: * Every step has items designed to pressure you to book NOW because it'll be too late otherwise: - "booked x times in the last x hours" on the listing, or - "Only 1 room left!" (they now add "on our site" after they lost a consumer protection lawsuit) - Showing booked-out listings "You missed it" - Various notifications like "last booked X minutes ago" and "limited supply" popping in while you're scrolling to raise the pressure * Misleading or deceptive claims - "Jackpot, this is the cheapest price you've seen" (emphasis should be on "you've seen", this will be shown even if you look at overpriced properties) - They seem to have stopped the "one person looking at this property" thing (to make you think that it may be gone if you don't book now - that one person is you), probably after being forced to do so by court - a misleading rating system (the lowest possible rating is 2.5/10, and you rate category-by-category, which means that if the staff is friendly and the hotel is in a good location etc. but the rats and cockroaches ate your luggage while you slept, that's an 8/10 property - in practice, you should assume that anything below 8 is not good, below 7.5 is bad, below 7 is catastrophic, below 6 you may not survive) - I'd also assume that they mess with the reviews in various ways, like showing mostly positive ones etc., but I haven't verified that. Overall, I like to compare the booking experience with a drill sergeant yelling into your ear to convert (book) right now, NOW, DO IT, NOW, YOU MAGGOT! They seem to have improved significantly over previous experiences with them, probably due to a combination of me getting used to ignore the yelling, or because they realized that such a bad experience pushes customers away, or because their practices got banned one by one. It's a shame, because other than the drill sergeant, their site is great.
- Lucadg 7y ago
  Reviews have changed now and you can leave an overall rating (at least somewhere, they may be A/B testing). The reaction from Hosts has been negative. They should read your comment as they fail to understand the logic behind the change.
rhizome 7y ago
Google's right over there.

Dark Patterns are tricks used in websites and apps that make you do things that you didn't mean to, like buying or signing up for something. See more examples here: https://www.darkpatterns.org/ https://www.darkpatterns.org/

jwc1 7y ago
It's amazing how once you put a label on something, you start noticing it _everywhere_. Someone pointed out "confirmshaming" to me a few years ago...and since then I feel like it shows up on > 50% of the sites I visit. https://www.darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/confirmshaming https://www.darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/confirmsh...
- cm2012 7y ago
  How is confirm shaming a dark pattern? It puts more factual detail near the yes or no options so people know what they're agreeing to or declining.
  - lbotos 7y ago
    It's emotional manipulation. Confirm shaming uses fear. If I'm cancelling amazon prime because it "costs too much" but you say "are you sure you want to miss out on all the fast shipping" someone who is easily manipulated may continue to subscribe because they are weak willed. You could instead ask: "Why are you cancelling?": - Cost - Don't use it enough - ... - Other (please specify:)
  - joegahona 7y ago
    > How is confirm shaming a dark pattern? It puts more factual detail near the yes or no options so people know what they're agreeing to or declining. In its best form, perhaps. But more likely than not it looks something like this: [ ] YES, I want to fight racism by subscribing to CrappyPublisher.net's twice-daily newsletter! [ ] NO, I am a racist (and also a pedophile)!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dekhn 7y ago

Would you like to learn more about dark patterns? YES or LATER?

joezydeco 7y ago
47 OTHER PEOPLE ARE REPLYING TO YOUR COMMENT RIGHT NOW
opportune 7y ago
I would like you to remind me every day until I submit to your annoyance, I mean tomorrow please

jhncls 7y ago

Ben Edelman (Harvard, Microsoft) published a study [0] about how dark patterns in the online travel industry help them reach margins up to 25%. He also mentions the consolidation where most well-known booking sites are owned by just two large groups. [0] http://www.benedelman.org/impact-of-ota-bias-and-consolidation-on-consumers/ http://www.benedelman.org/impact-of-ota-bias-and-consolidati...

rhizome 7y ago
Sounds like travel agents are becoming more and more cost effective every day. I mean, what does the Hyatt website do that a phone call 30 years ago couldn't?

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago

Deceiving, tricking and pressuring users into taking actions. For example, LinkedIn having a flow that has an e-mail and password box, which will get a less attentive user to just re-enter their LinkedIn credentials. But it's actually a phishing form for your e-mail, so if your LinkedIn and e-mail password is the same, you have now "consented" to have your address book scraped and your contacts spammed. Or, in the case of Booking.com: * Every step has items designed to pressure you to book NOW because it'll be too late otherwise: - "booked x times in the last x hours" on the listing, or - "Only 1 room left!" (they now add "on our site" after they lost a consumer protection lawsuit) - Showing booked-out listings "You missed it" - Various notifications like "last booked X minutes ago" and "limited supply" popping in while you're scrolling to raise the pressure * Misleading or deceptive claims - "Jackpot, this is the cheapest price you've seen" (emphasis should be on "you've seen", this will be shown even if you look at overpriced properties) - They seem to have stopped the "one person looking at this property" thing (to make you think that it may be gone if you don't book now - that one person is you), probably after being forced to do so by court - a misleading rating system (the lowest possible rating is 2.5/10, and you rate category-by-category, which means that if the staff is friendly and the hotel is in a good location etc. but the rats and cockroaches ate your luggage while you slept, that's an 8/10 property - in practice, you should assume that anything below 8 is not good, below 7.5 is bad, below 7 is catastrophic, below 6 you may not survive) - I'd also assume that they mess with the reviews in various ways, like showing mostly positive ones etc., but I haven't verified that. Overall, I like to compare the booking experience with a drill sergeant yelling into your ear to convert (book) right now, NOW, DO IT, NOW, YOU MAGGOT! They seem to have improved significantly over previous experiences with them, probably due to a combination of me getting used to ignore the yelling, or because they realized that such a bad experience pushes customers away, or because their practices got banned one by one. It's a shame, because other than the drill sergeant, their site is great.

Lucadg 7y ago
Reviews have changed now and you can leave an overall rating (at least somewhere, they may be A/B testing). The reaction from Hosts has been negative. They should read your comment as they fail to understand the logic behind the change.

rhizome 7y ago

Google's right over there.