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I guess we'll never learn from things like margarine and other lab invented foods. Beyond Meat is heavily dependent on seed oils which are terrible for us (exp

I guess we'll never learn from things like margarine and other lab invented foods. Beyond Meat is heavily dependent on seed oils which are terrible for us (expeller pressed canola oil is ingredient #2). Red Meat actually isn't unhealthy at the levels most people currently eat it. While it wouldn't surprise me if more people ate Beyond meat and its ilk in the future, it doesn't make it better for us and will likely just make us sicker. https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2752326/effect-lower-versus-higher-red-meat-intake-cardiometabolic-cancer-outcomes https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2752326/effect-lower-vers...

mantap 7y ago
What is your source that margarine is more unhealthy than red meat? And what do you mean by "healthy" anyway?
- WillPostForFood 7y ago
  https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-abo... The worst type of dietary fat is the kind known as trans fat. It is a byproduct of a process called hydrogenation that is used to turn healthy oils into solids and to prevent them from becoming rancid. Trans fats have no known health benefits and that there is no safe level of consumption. There are trans fat free margarines now, but historically margarine have been a tub of trans fat.
- yolobastard 7y ago
  Margarine is poison. Margarine is not food. Animals, insects, mold or bacteria, will NOT eat margarine. It's not even digestible.
whamlastxmas 7y ago
Beyond Meat has never claimed to be a healthier alternative to meat and it's a bit of a straw man to comment like they did. I also don't see many margarine induced illnesses or deaths. Everything is fine in moderation.
- urban_strike 7y ago
  > Beyond Meat has never claimed to be a healthier alternative to meat and it's a bit of a straw man to comment like they did. Not sure why you'd think that's a straw man when they explicitly state it on their website. First sentence on their Products page: "Imagine your favorite meaty dishes like burgers and tacos delivering the juicy, delicious taste you know and love, while being better for you and the planet." [0] [0] https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/
  - ianai 7y ago
    Marketing speak is almost always going to be dubiously credible. It definitely can be made more healthy than red meat in future revisions of the recipe. But it’s undoubtedly better for the planet than to be “raising” and killing cattle for red meat. You don’t need 660 gallons of water to make plants for 1 pound of beyond burger like you do for one pound ground chuck.
    - rhacker 7y ago
      Well, and, technically, if the world can survive longer and have better water, because of a shift in how we make food, then yes, it's healthier for you too - even if you don't eat it!
      - ianai 7y ago
        Yeah, as a desert dweller, I’m not entirely happy with the farmers nearby using our already scarce and diminishing water to raise cattle.
mrfusion 7y ago
What’s wrong with oils though? And if canola is bad why can’t they switch it out for olive oil?
- salasrod 7y ago
  Olive oil is not that good for you, and most importantly, it burns at really low temperatures, and ends up tasting horrible when it happens.
  - ianai 7y ago
    They could use avocado oil. It has a smoke point of 500F. Should be fine for searing.
  - oAlbe 7y ago
    That's actually very incorrect and misleading. Olive oil, expecially extra virgin olive oil, can withstand higher temperatures than sunflower, peanut and the like. IIRC the smoke point for EVO is around 210C. You could literally fry in olive oil, it's just too expensive to do so.
    - flush 7y ago
      Where are you getting your data from? I'm an avid cook and have always thought EVOO to be a low smoke point oil, especially compared to something like peanut oil. I did a quick search and found this: https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/cooking-fats-101-whats-a-smoke-point-and-why-does-it-matter.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/cooking-fats-101-whats-a... which suggests that EVOO has a relatively low smoke point compared to sunflower and peanut oil. I'm still open to other numbers though, since I'm not sure what study if any these numbers come from.
    - mwyah 7y ago
      I've exclusively fried stuff in EVOO all my life. I fill my deep fryer with EVOO. It's perfectly fine.
    - narag 7y ago
52-6F-62 7y ago
Not many people like to talk about this point because it seems off mode but those things made me quite sick. I was disappointed because I’m always in for a good burger no matter what it’s made with. (Don’t extrapolate that on me please!) There were several threads on r/vegan that spoke to the same symptoms, but with only vague guesses to the cause—like the oils. There is a lot of hubris displayed in the world of nutrition when any scientists I’ve spoken to in the research (rather than product) space seem to conclude that there isn’t enough known about the complex interactions that occur in our bodies when we eat a “whole” food utilizing the variety of compounds and their structured forms/proportions to say whether or not we can realistically and safely just supplement them yet. I’ve always been told, sure go ahead and supplement but just eat the food as well. Just don’t over eat. And eat mostly real food, shy away from processed stuff.
- rebuilder 7y ago
  I haven't heard of any kind of (edible!) oil acutely making people ill. Why is that the assumption with Impossible Burgers?
  - bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
    Well by definition things that make people ill aren't regarded as edible. Technically castor oil is edible, but you shouldn't consume it.
endorphone 7y ago
There is no consensus that seed oils are "terrible for us". Though as in all things nutrition it's easy to find a fringe voice that claims a position. Canola is considered a fairly healthy oil, obviously in moderation. Some fear-monger about hexane extraction however the Beyond Meat burger expressly uses pure pressed canola with no chemical extraction. Having said that, by far the overwhelming position on the "non meat burgers" is of environmental/reduced animal suffering positions. I've seldom (actually never, thinking about it) heard it pushed for health reasons.
- yolobastard 7y ago
  Is canola oil pressed without chemicals? I can't find anything about that...
rhacker 7y ago
username scotch_drinker :/
vfc1 7y ago
Red meat is a likely carcinogen and processed meat is a known carcinogen. Oils in general, even extra virgin olice oil are not health foods (which is a common misconception). Beyond burguers are not healthy, they are junk food. Plant-based junk food, but still junk food. If people are looking to learn how to eat healthy, the science say's its whole food plant-based. Don't eat plant extracts like oils, you need to eat the whole thing. Eat peas and not pea protein isolate, eat olives and not olive oil. And so forth. Just because something is plat-based does not make it healthy, Oreos are plant-based for example. Does anyone think they are healthy? It's about the perception of the public on certain foods, that is very hard to break as its built on decades of conditioning via advertising and pop culture.
jvanderbot 7y ago
Fast food has never been a cornerstone of healthy living, and I reckon few people eat hamburgers at home. The real benefit, in my mind, is not removing the staple treat of fast food from the market, while vastly reducing our need to farm red meat. I would posit adoption of plant based diets "under the hood" of fast food (and hopefully restaurants) is one of the easiest, most effective ways of dramatically reducing red meat consumption. This has an enormous impact. Most cropland is used for livestock feed, and 1/3 of ALL US LAND is used for pasture. This is why a plant based diet is on the top 10 ways to fight global climate change (4. Plant-rich diet), and starts to remove incentives for slash-and-burn agriculture (5. Better tropical forest health). Growing a lb of meat requires significantly more land, water, (and therefore fertilizer, etc), than the equivalent macros from plants. "That is, even if nothing about our energy infrastructure or transportation system changed—and even if people kept eating chicken and pork and eggs and cheese—this one dietary change could achieve somewhere between 46 and 74 percent of the reductions needed to meet the target. " https://getpocket.com/explore/item/if-everyone-ate-beans-instead-of-beef https://getpocket.com/explore/item/if-everyone-ate-beans-ins... https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.drawdown.org/the-book https://www.drawdown.org/the-book Next we should tackle ethanol (1/3 of corn yields go to ethanol). Any "well it may not be better for you" argument against this approach does seem to ignore that we believed red meat was bad for you for decades and we still spend so much of our resources growing red meat.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  "I reckon few people eat hamburgers at home." There are a lot of choices for hamburger in the grocery stores I go to. Both fresh ground meat, and frozen preformed hamburgers. Have you looked? Someone must be buying them.
  - jvanderbot 7y ago
    Fair dues, that was dumb.
aaron695 7y ago
This report has a absolutely nothing to do with Beyond Meat or Beyond Meat's technology, but this irrelevant rehash still manages to rank on HN. Even, even if it was the same technology, which it isn't if you bother to read the article and report, it's still irrelevant since the report is about the impact of the technology to industry not about health.

mantap 7y ago

What is your source that margarine is more unhealthy than red meat? And what do you mean by "healthy" anyway?

WillPostForFood 7y ago
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-abo... The worst type of dietary fat is the kind known as trans fat. It is a byproduct of a process called hydrogenation that is used to turn healthy oils into solids and to prevent them from becoming rancid. Trans fats have no known health benefits and that there is no safe level of consumption. There are trans fat free margarines now, but historically margarine have been a tub of trans fat.
yolobastard 7y ago
Margarine is poison. Margarine is not food. Animals, insects, mold or bacteria, will NOT eat margarine. It's not even digestible.

whamlastxmas 7y ago

Beyond Meat has never claimed to be a healthier alternative to meat and it's a bit of a straw man to comment like they did. I also don't see many margarine induced illnesses or deaths. Everything is fine in moderation.

urban_strike 7y ago
> Beyond Meat has never claimed to be a healthier alternative to meat and it's a bit of a straw man to comment like they did. Not sure why you'd think that's a straw man when they explicitly state it on their website. First sentence on their Products page: "Imagine your favorite meaty dishes like burgers and tacos delivering the juicy, delicious taste you know and love, while being better for you and the planet." [0] [0] https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/
- ianai 7y ago
  Marketing speak is almost always going to be dubiously credible. It definitely can be made more healthy than red meat in future revisions of the recipe. But it’s undoubtedly better for the planet than to be “raising” and killing cattle for red meat. You don’t need 660 gallons of water to make plants for 1 pound of beyond burger like you do for one pound ground chuck.
  - rhacker 7y ago
    Well, and, technically, if the world can survive longer and have better water, because of a shift in how we make food, then yes, it's healthier for you too - even if you don't eat it!
    - ianai 7y ago
      Yeah, as a desert dweller, I’m not entirely happy with the farmers nearby using our already scarce and diminishing water to raise cattle.

mrfusion 7y ago

What’s wrong with oils though? And if canola is bad why can’t they switch it out for olive oil?

salasrod 7y ago
Olive oil is not that good for you, and most importantly, it burns at really low temperatures, and ends up tasting horrible when it happens.
- ianai 7y ago
  They could use avocado oil. It has a smoke point of 500F. Should be fine for searing.
- oAlbe 7y ago
  That's actually very incorrect and misleading. Olive oil, expecially extra virgin olive oil, can withstand higher temperatures than sunflower, peanut and the like. IIRC the smoke point for EVO is around 210C. You could literally fry in olive oil, it's just too expensive to do so.
  - flush 7y ago
    Where are you getting your data from? I'm an avid cook and have always thought EVOO to be a low smoke point oil, especially compared to something like peanut oil. I did a quick search and found this: https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/cooking-fats-101-whats-a-smoke-point-and-why-does-it-matter.html https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/cooking-fats-101-whats-a... which suggests that EVOO has a relatively low smoke point compared to sunflower and peanut oil. I'm still open to other numbers though, since I'm not sure what study if any these numbers come from.
  - mwyah 7y ago
    I've exclusively fried stuff in EVOO all my life. I fill my deep fryer with EVOO. It's perfectly fine.
  - narag 7y ago

52-6F-62 7y ago

Not many people like to talk about this point because it seems off mode but those things made me quite sick. I was disappointed because I’m always in for a good burger no matter what it’s made with. (Don’t extrapolate that on me please!) There were several threads on r/vegan that spoke to the same symptoms, but with only vague guesses to the cause—like the oils. There is a lot of hubris displayed in the world of nutrition when any scientists I’ve spoken to in the research (rather than product) space seem to conclude that there isn’t enough known about the complex interactions that occur in our bodies when we eat a “whole” food utilizing the variety of compounds and their structured forms/proportions to say whether or not we can realistically and safely just supplement them yet. I’ve always been told, sure go ahead and supplement but just eat the food as well. Just don’t over eat. And eat mostly real food, shy away from processed stuff.

rebuilder 7y ago
I haven't heard of any kind of (edible!) oil acutely making people ill. Why is that the assumption with Impossible Burgers?
- bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
  Well by definition things that make people ill aren't regarded as edible. Technically castor oil is edible, but you shouldn't consume it.

endorphone 7y ago

There is no consensus that seed oils are "terrible for us". Though as in all things nutrition it's easy to find a fringe voice that claims a position. Canola is considered a fairly healthy oil, obviously in moderation. Some fear-monger about hexane extraction however the Beyond Meat burger expressly uses pure pressed canola with no chemical extraction. Having said that, by far the overwhelming position on the "non meat burgers" is of environmental/reduced animal suffering positions. I've seldom (actually never, thinking about it) heard it pushed for health reasons.

yolobastard 7y ago
Is canola oil pressed without chemicals? I can't find anything about that...

rhacker 7y ago

username scotch_drinker :/

vfc1 7y ago

Red meat is a likely carcinogen and processed meat is a known carcinogen. Oils in general, even extra virgin olice oil are not health foods (which is a common misconception). Beyond burguers are not healthy, they are junk food. Plant-based junk food, but still junk food. If people are looking to learn how to eat healthy, the science say's its whole food plant-based. Don't eat plant extracts like oils, you need to eat the whole thing. Eat peas and not pea protein isolate, eat olives and not olive oil. And so forth. Just because something is plat-based does not make it healthy, Oreos are plant-based for example. Does anyone think they are healthy? It's about the perception of the public on certain foods, that is very hard to break as its built on decades of conditioning via advertising and pop culture.

jvanderbot 7y ago

Fast food has never been a cornerstone of healthy living, and I reckon few people eat hamburgers at home. The real benefit, in my mind, is not removing the staple treat of fast food from the market, while vastly reducing our need to farm red meat. I would posit adoption of plant based diets "under the hood" of fast food (and hopefully restaurants) is one of the easiest, most effective ways of dramatically reducing red meat consumption. This has an enormous impact. Most cropland is used for livestock feed, and 1/3 of ALL US LAND is used for pasture. This is why a plant based diet is on the top 10 ways to fight global climate change (4. Plant-rich diet), and starts to remove incentives for slash-and-burn agriculture (5. Better tropical forest health). Growing a lb of meat requires significantly more land, water, (and therefore fertilizer, etc), than the equivalent macros from plants. "That is, even if nothing about our energy infrastructure or transportation system changed—and even if people kept eating chicken and pork and eggs and cheese—this one dietary change could achieve somewhere between 46 and 74 percent of the reductions needed to meet the target. " https://getpocket.com/explore/item/if-everyone-ate-beans-instead-of-beef https://getpocket.com/explore/item/if-everyone-ate-beans-ins... https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.drawdown.org/the-book https://www.drawdown.org/the-book Next we should tackle ethanol (1/3 of corn yields go to ethanol). Any "well it may not be better for you" argument against this approach does seem to ignore that we believed red meat was bad for you for decades and we still spend so much of our resources growing red meat.

perl4ever 7y ago
"I reckon few people eat hamburgers at home." There are a lot of choices for hamburger in the grocery stores I go to. Both fresh ground meat, and frozen preformed hamburgers. Have you looked? Someone must be buying them.
- jvanderbot 7y ago
  Fair dues, that was dumb.

aaron695 7y ago

This report has a absolutely nothing to do with Beyond Meat or Beyond Meat's technology, but this irrelevant rehash still manages to rank on HN. Even, even if it was the same technology, which it isn't if you bother to read the article and report, it's still irrelevant since the report is about the impact of the technology to industry not about health.