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PIP isn't a pink slip at all companies. I once got a PIP when working at a mid-sized corporation. Fortunately my performance wasn't an issue, they just didn't l

PIP isn't a pink slip at all companies. I once got a PIP when working at a mid-sized corporation. Fortunately my performance wasn't an issue, they just didn't like that I was frequently late to the daily morning standup (which upper management refused to allow us to reschedule to later in the day despite my insistence), didn't appear attentive in meetings, and was working from home too much. I started coming in to work on time and stopped coding during meetings and they took me off the PIP a couple weeks later. Of course I took this as a sign to gtfo of the company, so I started applying, left for a massive promotion and 40% raise, and now I work remotely at a company where we only have standup once every couple days and it's not first thing in the morning. Nobody's micromanaging my work schedule or nagging me for not clocking in at a certain time, and I'm making way more money especially since I don't have to live in SF/NYC anymore and pay nearly half my compensation in taxes and cut a third of my paycheck to a landlord. Funny thing is that I'm actually more responsive/available now because I value my job more, enough to enable Slack notifications on my phone and respond asap (within reason). Couldn't be happier.

jacquesm 7y ago
Companies want to look 'Agile' so they will treat it as though it is a religion. The daily stand-up bullshit gets taken to such an extreme that it becomes counter productive. If you work at such a place, simply get out. There is nothing that spells long term disaster more than rigid adherence to voodoo process.
- mcv 7y ago
  The daily stand-up is entirely reasonable and productive if you do it right. The problem is people who insist on doing it wrong. Upper management has no business deciding when a team has their stand-up. Agile means "people over process", after all.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    Sure. But the real reason management loves the 'morning standup meeting' is because it enforces morning attendance of all employees. So much for those flexible work hours. Oh, you do get to go home late to finish your work of course.
    - pdpi 7y ago
      My team has morning standups. We first changed the time, then agreed to make my participation optional, when it became clear that (due to personal reasons) I was struggling to make it to the office on time. It's a shame, too, because they're some of the best standups I've ever had. Our flex time is actually a thing, with some of my team mates showing up early and usually leaving around 17:00. I think I was asked, at every interview I've been to in the last few year, how I handle receiving difficult feedback. This is the only place I've ever interviewed at where I was asked how I handle giving difficult feedback.
      - mcv 7y ago
        In my team, when someone can't make it, they call in to the meeting. It's a short meeting, just a few lines per person. Doing it over the phone is totally fine.
    - Lutger 7y ago
      Management shouldn't even be at standups. Its for syncing with your peers, not an instrument of control. But I guess this is what you're saying, right?
- zbentley 7y ago
  Eh, the first place I worked didn't claim to be agile or anything. The daily meeting wasn't a stand-up (we sat and usually ate breakfast at a cafe or chatted in the lobby). It was still a really useful meeting.
  - notyourwork 7y ago
    I sit during my teams standup, it’s a standup because it’s a daily sync not because of literal standing.
    - techslave 7y ago
      actually it is supposed to be a literal standup. standing encourages very quick and to the point updates.
      - pstuart 7y ago
        Yes but the act of standing is a crutch, if you pardon the pun. What matters is brevity.
        notyourwork 7y ago
        Agreed, I don’t need to stand to ensure my teams concise in their update. The parking lot concept is a great way to shorten meeting and politely interrupt people when they are long winded.
      - notyourwork 7y ago
        You are missing my point entirely. Yes its called a standup because standing encourages brevity. Just because you sit or stand doesn't mean its a standup in literal definition though.
  - purple_ducks 7y ago
    it's a literal stand up so people don't dither. lot easier to become restless standing around than sitting down.
- Communitivity 7y ago
  The funny (or tragic) thing is, treating a version of Agile as a religion that's right for all teams all the time is against everything that Agile actually is.
  - Melchizedek 7y ago
    Sure, just like actual existing Communism is against everything that Communism actually is. Both Communism and Agile are at odds with reality (current productive forces and human nature) so they tend to devolve into tyranny.
- kelp 7y ago
  First, I don’t have my teams do daily stand ups. But in the rare times that I have, it’s mostly because the team tends to get pulled in a lot of directions, and the standup is a reminder to focus. There is usually a larger organizational issue that leads to a team pulled in so many directions. But that’s a lot harder to fix.
navigatesol 7y ago
>I started coming in to work on time and stopped coding during meetings and they took me off the PIP a couple weeks later. So, you were consistently late for work, didn't pay attention in meetings and were admittedly inattentive and working from home "too much". So you were put on PIP and you took that as a reason to leave the company? What did you expect them to do? You sound like a nightmare employee. I'm sure the company is equally glad you're gone.
- virgilp 7y ago
  You have a very weird definition of "nightmare employee". Nothing there says he was toxic; nothing there says he wasn't productive.
- mrkstu 7y ago
  I had a job where I put in longer hours than any other person on the team and was the most capable of handling the widest/diverse workload. My manager was obsessive about when I showed up at work- despite never missing a meeting. If I got in at 7:30 one morning and 9 the next, it drove him crazy, regardless if I was putting over 9 hours a day every day. He valued predictability over production because he was an obsessive control freak not because it made anything better from the point of view of the company or my actual output. I may have been a nightmare for him, but I don't think I was the problem- a manager should manage for productivity/outcomes not for his pet peeves. My current manager (at another company) understands how to maximize output and is comfortable as long as work gets done and everyone is much less stressed.
  - RealityNow 7y ago
    Yea I didn't even mention my prior job. They had a mandatory 9:30am attendance meeting that they called "standup", and if I showed up 5 minutes late my manager would joke about it coming out of my bonus. Despite this I don't think he actually cared, but the President did, and ultimately he answered to him. I quit that job soon after and my only regret is not leaving earlier.
    - 7y ago

jacquesm 7y ago

Companies want to look 'Agile' so they will treat it as though it is a religion. The daily stand-up bullshit gets taken to such an extreme that it becomes counter productive. If you work at such a place, simply get out. There is nothing that spells long term disaster more than rigid adherence to voodoo process.

mcv 7y ago
The daily stand-up is entirely reasonable and productive if you do it right. The problem is people who insist on doing it wrong. Upper management has no business deciding when a team has their stand-up. Agile means "people over process", after all.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Sure. But the real reason management loves the 'morning standup meeting' is because it enforces morning attendance of all employees. So much for those flexible work hours. Oh, you do get to go home late to finish your work of course.
  - pdpi 7y ago
    My team has morning standups. We first changed the time, then agreed to make my participation optional, when it became clear that (due to personal reasons) I was struggling to make it to the office on time. It's a shame, too, because they're some of the best standups I've ever had. Our flex time is actually a thing, with some of my team mates showing up early and usually leaving around 17:00. I think I was asked, at every interview I've been to in the last few year, how I handle receiving difficult feedback. This is the only place I've ever interviewed at where I was asked how I handle giving difficult feedback.
    - mcv 7y ago
      In my team, when someone can't make it, they call in to the meeting. It's a short meeting, just a few lines per person. Doing it over the phone is totally fine.
  - Lutger 7y ago
    Management shouldn't even be at standups. Its for syncing with your peers, not an instrument of control. But I guess this is what you're saying, right?
zbentley 7y ago
Eh, the first place I worked didn't claim to be agile or anything. The daily meeting wasn't a stand-up (we sat and usually ate breakfast at a cafe or chatted in the lobby). It was still a really useful meeting.
- notyourwork 7y ago
  I sit during my teams standup, it’s a standup because it’s a daily sync not because of literal standing.
  - techslave 7y ago
    actually it is supposed to be a literal standup. standing encourages very quick and to the point updates.
    - pstuart 7y ago
      Yes but the act of standing is a crutch, if you pardon the pun. What matters is brevity.
      - notyourwork 7y ago
        Agreed, I don’t need to stand to ensure my teams concise in their update. The parking lot concept is a great way to shorten meeting and politely interrupt people when they are long winded.
    - notyourwork 7y ago
      You are missing my point entirely. Yes its called a standup because standing encourages brevity. Just because you sit or stand doesn't mean its a standup in literal definition though.
- purple_ducks 7y ago
  it's a literal stand up so people don't dither. lot easier to become restless standing around than sitting down.
Communitivity 7y ago
The funny (or tragic) thing is, treating a version of Agile as a religion that's right for all teams all the time is against everything that Agile actually is.
- Melchizedek 7y ago
  Sure, just like actual existing Communism is against everything that Communism actually is. Both Communism and Agile are at odds with reality (current productive forces and human nature) so they tend to devolve into tyranny.
kelp 7y ago
First, I don’t have my teams do daily stand ups. But in the rare times that I have, it’s mostly because the team tends to get pulled in a lot of directions, and the standup is a reminder to focus. There is usually a larger organizational issue that leads to a team pulled in so many directions. But that’s a lot harder to fix.

navigatesol 7y ago

>I started coming in to work on time and stopped coding during meetings and they took me off the PIP a couple weeks later. So, you were consistently late for work, didn't pay attention in meetings and were admittedly inattentive and working from home "too much". So you were put on PIP and you took that as a reason to leave the company? What did you expect them to do? You sound like a nightmare employee. I'm sure the company is equally glad you're gone.

virgilp 7y ago
You have a very weird definition of "nightmare employee". Nothing there says he was toxic; nothing there says he wasn't productive.
mrkstu 7y ago
I had a job where I put in longer hours than any other person on the team and was the most capable of handling the widest/diverse workload. My manager was obsessive about when I showed up at work- despite never missing a meeting. If I got in at 7:30 one morning and 9 the next, it drove him crazy, regardless if I was putting over 9 hours a day every day. He valued predictability over production because he was an obsessive control freak not because it made anything better from the point of view of the company or my actual output. I may have been a nightmare for him, but I don't think I was the problem- a manager should manage for productivity/outcomes not for his pet peeves. My current manager (at another company) understands how to maximize output and is comfortable as long as work gets done and everyone is much less stressed.
- RealityNow 7y ago
  Yea I didn't even mention my prior job. They had a mandatory 9:30am attendance meeting that they called "standup", and if I showed up 5 minutes late my manager would joke about it coming out of my bonus. Despite this I don't think he actually cared, but the President did, and ultimately he answered to him. I quit that job soon after and my only regret is not leaving earlier.
  - 7y ago