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You cited skepticalscience.com, which is John Cook's web site. He's a known scientific fraud, behind the paper Cook, et al, which is cited as the source of the

You cited skepticalscience.com, which is John Cook's web site. He's a known scientific fraud, behind the paper Cook, et al, which is cited as the source of the "consensus" claim. If you're interested, you can google up information about their fraudulent paper, the conclusion of which they decided before writing it. It's because of claims and citations like yours that people don't believe alarmists. It's dishonest (or ignorant) to cite a fraudulent paper as the source for a claim that the science is settled. Real science is falsifiable and can withstand dissent.

chimprich 7y ago
It's not often I use such strong language on HN, but you're talking complete bullshit. There's a lot of evidence for overwhelming consensus on the science of global heating. Starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists%27_views_on_climate_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists%27_views... Papers rejecting AGW are in an extreme minority.
- justsubmit 7y ago
  Your reaction shows that we have reached the crux of the matter. Don't take my word for it. You're on the Internet. Look up the evidence about Cook's paper. Their fraud was exposed years ago, yet people continue citing him, his paper, and his Web site. (You probably won't find much about it on Wikipedia, of course.) And the lies are nothing new. For example, Stephen Schneider advocated scientists and media deceiving the public in APS News Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5. It's been going on for decades. > Papers rejecting AGW are in an extreme minority. All the science that's been proven correct was once an extreme minority view. An argument based on the number of people who believe something is not a scientific argument. And why would you make an unscientific argument about a scientific issue?
  - chimprich 7y ago
    > Don't take my word for it. I won't. I want peer-reviewed science, like the vastly significant body of research that has been produced showing AGW. > You're on the Internet. Look up the evidence about Cook's paper. No. You're the one insisting that the global scientific orthodoxy is wrong. You present the evidence. > Stephen Schneider advocated scientists and media deceiving the public in APS News Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5. No, he didn't. Try looking up the original. But even if he did, it wouldn't matter. The science is overwhelming. It makes no difference what one individual said 23 years ago.
    - justsubmit 7y ago
      > I want peer-reviewed science, like the vastly significant body of research that has been produced showing AGW. Are you also unaware of the peer-review crisis? > No. You're the one insisting that the global scientific orthodoxy is wrong. You present the evidence. Since you appeared to be unaware, I informed you that a particular, widely cited paper was discovered, years ago, to have been fraudulent, and that the information about it is freely available on the Internet. Five seconds on Google (or perhaps DuckDuckGo) would present you with the information. You have refused to avail yourself of said information. It is not my responsibility to educate you about science. If you care about scientific integrity, you can look up the information without any interference from me. If you prefer to remain ignorant and fixed in your beliefs, that is your decision. > No, he didn't. Try looking up the original. But even if he did, it wouldn't matter. The science is overwhelming. It makes no difference what one individual said 23 years ago. You accused me of "bullshit," but here you are simply lying. I have cited the original, and I have the original, and since you are willfully ignorant, I will quote it here: On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but — which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climatic change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This ‘double ethical bind’ we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both. --Stephen Schneider in APS News, Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5 Now you can look it up and see for yourself, and then you can retract your ignorant lie and false accusation. You obviously don't care about the truth. Climate change is your religion, and your faith is unwavering.
      - chimprich 7y ago
        > Are you also unaware of the peer-review crisis? There's definitely issues in science with things like repeatability in individual studies, but that doesn't apply to something like AGW. It's supported by thousands (millions?) of papers, models, meta-studies, science bodies, and so on, all agreeing. See for example NASA's overview: https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ > Now you can look it up and see for yourself, and then you can retract your ignorant lie and false accusation. Gosh, you're furious. But at least you have got the correct quote, and it just isn't the smoking gun you think it is. It's just one remark, made in public, about the need to be media-savvy. He was not suggesting misleading the public.

chimprich 7y ago

It's not often I use such strong language on HN, but you're talking complete bullshit. There's a lot of evidence for overwhelming consensus on the science of global heating. Starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists%27_views_on_climate_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveys_of_scientists%27_views... Papers rejecting AGW are in an extreme minority.

justsubmit 7y ago
Your reaction shows that we have reached the crux of the matter. Don't take my word for it. You're on the Internet. Look up the evidence about Cook's paper. Their fraud was exposed years ago, yet people continue citing him, his paper, and his Web site. (You probably won't find much about it on Wikipedia, of course.) And the lies are nothing new. For example, Stephen Schneider advocated scientists and media deceiving the public in APS News Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5. It's been going on for decades. > Papers rejecting AGW are in an extreme minority. All the science that's been proven correct was once an extreme minority view. An argument based on the number of people who believe something is not a scientific argument. And why would you make an unscientific argument about a scientific issue?
- chimprich 7y ago
  > Don't take my word for it. I won't. I want peer-reviewed science, like the vastly significant body of research that has been produced showing AGW. > You're on the Internet. Look up the evidence about Cook's paper. No. You're the one insisting that the global scientific orthodoxy is wrong. You present the evidence. > Stephen Schneider advocated scientists and media deceiving the public in APS News Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5. No, he didn't. Try looking up the original. But even if he did, it wouldn't matter. The science is overwhelming. It makes no difference what one individual said 23 years ago.
  - justsubmit 7y ago
    > I want peer-reviewed science, like the vastly significant body of research that has been produced showing AGW. Are you also unaware of the peer-review crisis? > No. You're the one insisting that the global scientific orthodoxy is wrong. You present the evidence. Since you appeared to be unaware, I informed you that a particular, widely cited paper was discovered, years ago, to have been fraudulent, and that the information about it is freely available on the Internet. Five seconds on Google (or perhaps DuckDuckGo) would present you with the information. You have refused to avail yourself of said information. It is not my responsibility to educate you about science. If you care about scientific integrity, you can look up the information without any interference from me. If you prefer to remain ignorant and fixed in your beliefs, that is your decision. > No, he didn't. Try looking up the original. But even if he did, it wouldn't matter. The science is overwhelming. It makes no difference what one individual said 23 years ago. You accused me of "bullshit," but here you are simply lying. I have cited the original, and I have the original, and since you are willfully ignorant, I will quote it here: On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but — which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climatic change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This ‘double ethical bind’ we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both. --Stephen Schneider in APS News, Aug/Sep 1996, p. 5 Now you can look it up and see for yourself, and then you can retract your ignorant lie and false accusation. You obviously don't care about the truth. Climate change is your religion, and your faith is unwavering.
    - chimprich 7y ago
      > Are you also unaware of the peer-review crisis? There's definitely issues in science with things like repeatability in individual studies, but that doesn't apply to something like AGW. It's supported by thousands (millions?) of papers, models, meta-studies, science bodies, and so on, all agreeing. See for example NASA's overview: https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ > Now you can look it up and see for yourself, and then you can retract your ignorant lie and false accusation. Gosh, you're furious. But at least you have got the correct quote, and it just isn't the smoking gun you think it is. It's just one remark, made in public, about the need to be media-savvy. He was not suggesting misleading the public.