5 ms·

Using the term SJW alone destroys the credibility of any substantial claim using it. If you really want to persuade people, find a term that isn’t mainly employ

by lame88 7y ago

Using the term SJW alone destroys the credibility of any substantial claim using it. If you really want to persuade people, find a term that isn’t mainly employed as incendiary jargon of far-right ideology to categorically dismiss anyone left of their viewpoint.

dexen 7y ago
The concern has already been raised by sibling comment[0], so cross-posting my response. Let the last line quoted from article be a reply to you. >This has nothing to do with 'SJWs' >I think it's much more likely you're clinging to buzzwords. The ESR's article[1] you are referencing is so much more than just headline. I encourage you to read it, and try to re-construct the events, the thoughts, and the emotions that led ESR to post a piece that explosive. The comment section alone spans some 760 responses over four years, with people chipping in with their observations from the trenches and with their shattered dreams. While writing, ESR was in communication with several victims of then-recent social media mobs, and conveyed their woes. The two bits of article that stood out to me: >The hacker culture’s norm about inclusion is clear: >anybody who can pull the freight is welcome and >We must (...) >learn to recognize their thought-stopping jargon and kafkatraps -- [1] "Why Hackers Must Eject the SJWs", http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993761
- nguoi 7y ago
  I did read it, much as I read the guidelines for this website. SJW is not an antonym of hacker. Whatever hacker culture's norm is, breaking work relationships and censorship for someone's words or actions is much older than hacker culture and is done my many more groups than 2010s American Democrat voters. Consider 1984, or Mary Whitehouse.
- lame88 7y ago
  I'm well aware of the problems people like antirez face from others who deem themselves the moral/language internet police, and it is definitely an ongoing problem, but none of this is limited to the tech community, and I'm not really convinced that situations like those are sufficiently comparable to what we see with Stallman here.
arkh 7y ago
Then: North American Nouvelle-Bourgeoisie. Or Puritans 2.0.
will4274 7y ago
You might want to check where you're standing. SJW is common slang, used by the right, the center, independents, and the moderate left to describe a particular subset of the far left. As an anecdote, a girl I recently met told me (unsolicited, I hadn't use the word yet, but we were talking around politics) "I'm fairly liberal but I can't stand SJWs." Ironically, you did in your comment exactly what you said the parent was doing - inadvertently demonstrated that your views are very far from the mainstream in a way that harms your own credibility.
manfredo 7y ago
Far from it, plenty of staunchly liberal people use the acronym SJW. Getting riled up by the term is analogous to people on the right objecting to "white privilege" and complain that it's categorically dismissing white people's opinions. The bigger irony is that your comment claims that the term is used to categorically dismiss people, while simultaneously categorically dismissing the above poster's commeent.
- lame88 7y ago
  You may have, but I've never met such a person, and that's a false equivalence. And it is not really ironic; when you use an inflammatory term especially in a headline, you use it knowing what the term evokes and it's a clear sign of what kind of audience you're pandering to. And I will judge that person accordingly. That said, considering the post came out in 2015 (which I didn't know at the time of making that comment), I think it had not yet totally become a blanket term synonymous with "liberals" so I can mostly reserve judgement in this case. Again, though, i don't think this is really all that relevant to the topic of stallman.
lone_haxx0r 7y ago
What else can we call it? The only alternative names that come to my mind are the "inductive inconsequential postmodernists" and the "emotional radical progressives"
sascha_sl 7y ago
(hint for would-be repliers: postmodern neomarxist isn't either)

by lame88 7y ago

dexen 7y ago

The concern has already been raised by sibling comment[0], so cross-posting my response. Let the last line quoted from article be a reply to you. >This has nothing to do with 'SJWs' >I think it's much more likely you're clinging to buzzwords. The ESR's article[1] you are referencing is so much more than just headline. I encourage you to read it, and try to re-construct the events, the thoughts, and the emotions that led ESR to post a piece that explosive. The comment section alone spans some 760 responses over four years, with people chipping in with their observations from the trenches and with their shattered dreams. While writing, ESR was in communication with several victims of then-recent social media mobs, and conveyed their woes. The two bits of article that stood out to me: >The hacker culture’s norm about inclusion is clear: >anybody who can pull the freight is welcome and >We must (...) >learn to recognize their thought-stopping jargon and kafkatraps -- [1] "Why Hackers Must Eject the SJWs", http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918 [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993761

nguoi 7y ago
I did read it, much as I read the guidelines for this website. SJW is not an antonym of hacker. Whatever hacker culture's norm is, breaking work relationships and censorship for someone's words or actions is much older than hacker culture and is done my many more groups than 2010s American Democrat voters. Consider 1984, or Mary Whitehouse.
lame88 7y ago
I'm well aware of the problems people like antirez face from others who deem themselves the moral/language internet police, and it is definitely an ongoing problem, but none of this is limited to the tech community, and I'm not really convinced that situations like those are sufficiently comparable to what we see with Stallman here.

arkh 7y ago

Then: North American Nouvelle-Bourgeoisie. Or Puritans 2.0.

will4274 7y ago

You might want to check where you're standing. SJW is common slang, used by the right, the center, independents, and the moderate left to describe a particular subset of the far left. As an anecdote, a girl I recently met told me (unsolicited, I hadn't use the word yet, but we were talking around politics) "I'm fairly liberal but I can't stand SJWs." Ironically, you did in your comment exactly what you said the parent was doing - inadvertently demonstrated that your views are very far from the mainstream in a way that harms your own credibility.

manfredo 7y ago

Far from it, plenty of staunchly liberal people use the acronym SJW. Getting riled up by the term is analogous to people on the right objecting to "white privilege" and complain that it's categorically dismissing white people's opinions. The bigger irony is that your comment claims that the term is used to categorically dismiss people, while simultaneously categorically dismissing the above poster's commeent.

lame88 7y ago
You may have, but I've never met such a person, and that's a false equivalence. And it is not really ironic; when you use an inflammatory term especially in a headline, you use it knowing what the term evokes and it's a clear sign of what kind of audience you're pandering to. And I will judge that person accordingly. That said, considering the post came out in 2015 (which I didn't know at the time of making that comment), I think it had not yet totally become a blanket term synonymous with "liberals" so I can mostly reserve judgement in this case. Again, though, i don't think this is really all that relevant to the topic of stallman.

lone_haxx0r 7y ago

What else can we call it? The only alternative names that come to my mind are the "inductive inconsequential postmodernists" and the "emotional radical progressives"

sascha_sl 7y ago

(hint for would-be repliers: postmodern neomarxist isn't either)