6 ms·

What I find interesting, is the great number of people - specially in the last decade when reading 1984 suddenly became popular - that keeps telling us all that

by wtdata 7y ago

What I find interesting, is the great number of people - specially in the last decade when reading 1984 suddenly became popular - that keeps telling us all that Orwell's works are a warning specifically against fascism and point Orwell's role in Spain as proof that he was himself a communist. Orwell left quite clear that after having seen both Nazism and Communism in action, he was staunchly against both forms of totalitarianism.

southerntofu 7y ago
> he was staunchly against both forms of totalitarianism Indeed! But unlike capitalism, communism does not require totalitarian structures of power. They're actually quite incompatible. Empires describing themselves as "communist" are more so "state capitalist". The USSR was not a classless society nor a free society so it cannot be called communism: some people had more rights/resources than others (the opposite of "communism"). In marxist views, dictatorship of the pretend-proletariat (red elites are usually not common people) is a capitalist stage of a society advancing towards communism but cannot be considered communism. No pretend-communist country ever outgrew this phase (because power structures do not dissolve by themselves, we have to destroy them). Orwell was a trotskyist. If we forget just for a minute the lies and inconsistencies of Trotsky (who was a mass-murdering psychopath), trotskyists are libertarian communists. They advocate self-organized cooperation/sharing without central authority (no state). Orwell was therefore close to anarchist ideas. You can feel his admiration for anarchists in his book "Homage to Catalonia". When the USSR started to overthrow the CNT-led anarchist revolution in Catalunya, anarchists allied with trotskyist militias to fight against fascism and authoritarian communism. They failed of course, because what can you do to survive against two power-hungry emperors (Franco/Staline) who agree to destroy you?
- tuxxy 7y ago
  > ... anarchists allied with trotskyist militias to fight against fascism and authoritarian communism. This is not true. The Soviet backed militias forced Anarchists to either fight for their militias or be part of their purge. The Soviets used force to squash the growing (and large) anti-authoritarian sentiment among the Spanish Civil War Republicans.
  - southerntofu 7y ago
    Well, that's exactly what i meant. Communist militias wanted to annihilate both anarchist and trotskyist militias, so those allied during the street battles of Barcelona. Are we not saying the same thing?
- yeahforsureman 7y ago
  Orwell was not a Trotskyist. Aligned with them briefly due to circumstances but he was skeptical of whether Trotsky's strain of dictatorship would have been any better than that of Stalin.
- cbnotfromthere 7y ago
  "But unlike capitalism, communism does not require totalitarian structures of power. They're actually quite incompatible." These are blatantly incorrect claims.

by wtdata 7y ago

southerntofu 7y ago

> he was staunchly against both forms of totalitarianism Indeed! But unlike capitalism, communism does not require totalitarian structures of power. They're actually quite incompatible. Empires describing themselves as "communist" are more so "state capitalist". The USSR was not a classless society nor a free society so it cannot be called communism: some people had more rights/resources than others (the opposite of "communism"). In marxist views, dictatorship of the pretend-proletariat (red elites are usually not common people) is a capitalist stage of a society advancing towards communism but cannot be considered communism. No pretend-communist country ever outgrew this phase (because power structures do not dissolve by themselves, we have to destroy them). Orwell was a trotskyist. If we forget just for a minute the lies and inconsistencies of Trotsky (who was a mass-murdering psychopath), trotskyists are libertarian communists. They advocate self-organized cooperation/sharing without central authority (no state). Orwell was therefore close to anarchist ideas. You can feel his admiration for anarchists in his book "Homage to Catalonia". When the USSR started to overthrow the CNT-led anarchist revolution in Catalunya, anarchists allied with trotskyist militias to fight against fascism and authoritarian communism. They failed of course, because what can you do to survive against two power-hungry emperors (Franco/Staline) who agree to destroy you?

tuxxy 7y ago
> ... anarchists allied with trotskyist militias to fight against fascism and authoritarian communism. This is not true. The Soviet backed militias forced Anarchists to either fight for their militias or be part of their purge. The Soviets used force to squash the growing (and large) anti-authoritarian sentiment among the Spanish Civil War Republicans.
- southerntofu 7y ago
  Well, that's exactly what i meant. Communist militias wanted to annihilate both anarchist and trotskyist militias, so those allied during the street battles of Barcelona. Are we not saying the same thing?
yeahforsureman 7y ago
Orwell was not a Trotskyist. Aligned with them briefly due to circumstances but he was skeptical of whether Trotsky's strain of dictatorship would have been any better than that of Stalin.
cbnotfromthere 7y ago
"But unlike capitalism, communism does not require totalitarian structures of power. They're actually quite incompatible." These are blatantly incorrect claims.