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How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

anamax 16y ago
> How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year. When do you think that each of those became true? Or is it that they've finally crossed a tipping point? I agree that they're all true, but they've been true since before 1776. And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place better. Suggestions?
- RickRoll 16y ago
  http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Science,science,Religion,religion&year_start=1700&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1 http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Science,science,R... http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Freedom,+freedom,+Security,+security&year_start=1700&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1 http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Freedom,+freedom,... In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance. I'd bet around 1776 the majority of ppl in the colonies were willing to take care of themselves. Today the power of federal government cannot be ignored by anyone, so it's part of every big problem/solution. IMHO we'll see some global changes in the next years. The best place to live would be the one, where your chances of survival are the highest.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance. More dreamed of becoming cowboys, police, and firemen. Also, kids during the 50s dreamed of becoming professional athletes. The only that has changed in that respect is which sports. In any event, that doesn't have anything to do with "How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year."
- eml 16y ago
  Hong Kong, or Switzerland.
- loewenskind 16y ago
  >And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place better. Then you're either putting impossible requirements on the new place (e.g. "and my friends have to all live there") or you're simply not looking. Throw a dart at western Europe. Any of those places will provide a better quality of living for most people.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > Throw a dart at western Europe. Any of those places will provide a better quality of living for most people. Which direction is the immigration pressure?
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      Irrelevant. Look at any standard of living study. They'll all have most of western Europe above the US for the average person. Most western European countries have more incoming migration than they are comfortable with. I also think you'll find that migration pressure to the US has started to slow. You may still have a large amount from Mexico but that is about opportunity, not a testament of the US being the place to be.
      - anamax 16y ago
        > Irrelevant. Look at any standard of living study. Hmm. You don't think that people's preferences tell us anything? > They'll all have most of western Europe above the US for the average person. American poor people are stereotypically obese and have multiple cars and big screen TVs. While those things are bad for them.... Oh, and they have free healthcare too. (Never confuse insurance with healthcare.) It is true that the gap between the poor and the rich is greater in the US, but by that measure, hunter-gatherers were better off than modern europeans. > Most western European countries have more incoming migration than they are comfortable with. As does the US. However, immigration pressure comes from everywhere. Why is comparing the pressure between {your favorite western European country} and the US irrelevant? > I also think you'll find that migration pressure to the US has started to slow. You may still have a large amount from Mexico but that is about opportunity, not a testament of the US being the place to be. Huh? Opportunity is surely one factor in "place to be". That said, I agree Mexico vs the US doesn't tell us anything about US vs western Europe, just as Turkey vs Germany doesn't tell us anything about US vs Germany.
eitland 16y ago
The problem is NOT that people prefer religion over science. The problem is people prefer sitcoms over both religion and science.
- brc 16y ago
  And some science is just a new religion for those who don't like churches.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  Uh what? I'd prefer that most Americans sat and watched sitcoms and left the mental lifting to the rest of us. Sadly, the religious folk think they have a seat at the intellectual table as well.
  - DuncanIdaho 16y ago
    They do IMHO. No their function is not to divine when did Noah leave the ark and how did all those animals and humans repopulate the earth in 4k and something years. Their job is to ask "stupid" questions. Their job is to analyse the results of science through spiritual and theological lens. In short role of religion in society is same as role of CEO in a company - to provide strategy, vision and guidance. Sadly both are increasingly failing us. True problem of religions nowadays is not that there is no place for them - but that they outright refuse to re evaluate their positions, instead demanding their rights of old. Just like RIAA, MPAA, etc.., But indeed that would mean they had to work and be creative - maybe even expose themselves to some risk, but that would be too hard. Better to cling to old birthrights and refuse to cooperate.
  - drivebyacct2 16y ago
    LOL. I love that I get downvoted and the child comment gets upvoted. ITT Religious people are sad that their ilk are ignorant and are holding back social progress.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      It's all about the tone. If you'd expressed concern that religious powers are holding us back in terms of scientific progress (stem cells, attempts at creationism in schools, etc), I think you'd have wide agreement. Instead, you said it in a more "reddit" mocking way, which rarely goes over well here.

anamax 16y ago

> How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year. When do you think that each of those became true? Or is it that they've finally crossed a tipping point? I agree that they're all true, but they've been true since before 1776. And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place better. Suggestions?

RickRoll 16y ago
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Science,science,Religion,religion&year_start=1700&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1 http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Science,science,R... http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Freedom,+freedom,+Security,+security&year_start=1700&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=1 http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=Freedom,+freedom,... In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance. I'd bet around 1776 the majority of ppl in the colonies were willing to take care of themselves. Today the power of federal government cannot be ignored by anyone, so it's part of every big problem/solution. IMHO we'll see some global changes in the next years. The best place to live would be the one, where your chances of survival are the highest.
- anamax 16y ago
  > In the 50s, 60s, 70s children have dreamed of becoming astronauts, programmers, engineers, scientists. But nowadays the cool jobs are in sports, TV, finance. More dreamed of becoming cowboys, police, and firemen. Also, kids during the 50s dreamed of becoming professional athletes. The only that has changed in that respect is which sports. In any event, that doesn't have anything to do with "How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year."
eml 16y ago
Hong Kong, or Switzerland.
loewenskind 16y ago
>And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place better. Then you're either putting impossible requirements on the new place (e.g. "and my friends have to all live there") or you're simply not looking. Throw a dart at western Europe. Any of those places will provide a better quality of living for most people.
- anamax 16y ago
  > Throw a dart at western Europe. Any of those places will provide a better quality of living for most people. Which direction is the immigration pressure?
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    Irrelevant. Look at any standard of living study. They'll all have most of western Europe above the US for the average person. Most western European countries have more incoming migration than they are comfortable with. I also think you'll find that migration pressure to the US has started to slow. You may still have a large amount from Mexico but that is about opportunity, not a testament of the US being the place to be.
    - anamax 16y ago
      > Irrelevant. Look at any standard of living study. Hmm. You don't think that people's preferences tell us anything? > They'll all have most of western Europe above the US for the average person. American poor people are stereotypically obese and have multiple cars and big screen TVs. While those things are bad for them.... Oh, and they have free healthcare too. (Never confuse insurance with healthcare.) It is true that the gap between the poor and the rich is greater in the US, but by that measure, hunter-gatherers were better off than modern europeans. > Most western European countries have more incoming migration than they are comfortable with. As does the US. However, immigration pressure comes from everywhere. Why is comparing the pressure between {your favorite western European country} and the US irrelevant? > I also think you'll find that migration pressure to the US has started to slow. You may still have a large amount from Mexico but that is about opportunity, not a testament of the US being the place to be. Huh? Opportunity is surely one factor in "place to be". That said, I agree Mexico vs the US doesn't tell us anything about US vs western Europe, just as Turkey vs Germany doesn't tell us anything about US vs Germany.

eitland 16y ago

The problem is NOT that people prefer religion over science. The problem is people prefer sitcoms over both religion and science.

brc 16y ago
And some science is just a new religion for those who don't like churches.
drivebyacct2 16y ago
Uh what? I'd prefer that most Americans sat and watched sitcoms and left the mental lifting to the rest of us. Sadly, the religious folk think they have a seat at the intellectual table as well.
- DuncanIdaho 16y ago
  They do IMHO. No their function is not to divine when did Noah leave the ark and how did all those animals and humans repopulate the earth in 4k and something years. Their job is to ask "stupid" questions. Their job is to analyse the results of science through spiritual and theological lens. In short role of religion in society is same as role of CEO in a company - to provide strategy, vision and guidance. Sadly both are increasingly failing us. True problem of religions nowadays is not that there is no place for them - but that they outright refuse to re evaluate their positions, instead demanding their rights of old. Just like RIAA, MPAA, etc.., But indeed that would mean they had to work and be creative - maybe even expose themselves to some risk, but that would be too hard. Better to cling to old birthrights and refuse to cooperate.
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  LOL. I love that I get downvoted and the child comment gets upvoted. ITT Religious people are sad that their ilk are ignorant and are holding back social progress.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    It's all about the tone. If you'd expressed concern that religious powers are holding us back in terms of scientific progress (stem cells, attempts at creationism in schools, etc), I think you'd have wide agreement. Instead, you said it in a more "reddit" mocking way, which rarely goes over well here.