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> It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup What do you mean? Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Is there people actuall

by alien1993 7y ago

> It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup What do you mean? Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!?

markdown 7y ago
> Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Really? I've always assumed that ketchup is just what Americans call tomato sauce.
- knodi 7y ago
  No.
- SllX 7y ago
  Tomato jam would be better description, though that’s also a whole other condiment which is apparently pretty popular in South Africa. We don’t typically serve our pasta with ketchup[1]. [1] The Japanese however, might. https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ I’ve tasted variants of this. It isn’t for me, but I never cared for ketchup.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    Fun fact: Japanese Naporitan pasta (basically spaghetti with ketchup) originates from US military rations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan The Japanese can only blame themselves for the ketchup-flavored popsicles though: https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-popsicle-seriously/ https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-...
- michaelt 7y ago
  Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. On the other hand, a pasta sauce would generally retain chunks of tomato, use less (or even no) vinegar, salt or sugar per unit volume; and it would be applied to non-greasy pasta in much larger volumes :)
  - markdown 7y ago
    > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. What you've described is just called tomato sauce in my part of the world (Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand). So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. EDIT: I found this https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australia-tomato-sauce https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australi...
    - dagw 7y ago
      So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. Interesting. Do you have a different word for the tomato based sauce made from fresh or canned tomatoes often used on pizzas and pasta?
      - NickNameNick 7y ago
        Pizza sauce (or possibly tomato paste), and pasta sauce, respectively. Tomato Sauce and Ketchup aren't quite the same thing here - ketchup is probably stronger and thicker, but they are used the same way.
      - EdwardDiego 7y ago
        We do tomato paste and tomato puree. Typically use the paste for a pizza base, and if you're making your own pasta sauce, tomato puree with a dollop of paste to up the tomatoeness.
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      Ketchup tastes like it has more vinegar in it than tomato sauce, but that's a highly subjective Kiwi opinion. Incidentally, the best tomato sauce is whatever magical sauce they use on the hot-dogs at A&P shows.
  - henrikschroder 7y ago
    > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in Historically, ketchup was a class of condiments that all had a lot of umami like fish sauces and oyster sauces. Over time, different ketchups were invented, one of which was tomato ketchup. Its popularity grew, and the other ketchups were forgotten, so these days ketchup is synonymous with tomato ketchup.
- hug 7y ago
  Are you Australian? For the confused people in the audience: There is a product, in Australia, much like ketchup, marketed as “tomato sauce”. Yes, people make pasta sauce with it. Yes, pasta sauce made from scratch is better. It’s not so dissimilar from ketchup, just a little less vinegary.
  - richrichardsson 7y ago
    British rarely refer to ketchup as ketchup, we almost exclusively refer to it as "tomato sauce".
    - pm215 7y ago
      I'm British, and I refer to ketchup as ketchup. This may be regional; I'm southern-English. I'd probably by default assume that if you said 'tomato sauce' you meant a generic tomato-based sauce, not the specific condiment Heinz &c make.
      - jfk13 7y ago
        Also southern English, and this matches my understanding of the terminology. But yes, I believe usage does vary regionally.
    - abrugsch 7y ago
      or even worse, "Red Sauce"
      - richrichardsson 7y ago
        Yeah, you hear that a lot in "greasy spoon" establishments, perhaps because there isn't enough tomato in the recipe to claim it as such?
    - _sid 7y ago
      I'm British and I've only ever experienced people calling it ketchup
dagw 7y ago
Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!? I've seen several recipes for tomato based sauces that use ketchup as an ingredient if that's what you mean. But it's used a flavoring ingredient, not as the bulk of the sauce.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> Tomato sauce is not ketchup Regionally, people where I live call ketchup 'tomato sauce', or sometimes 'red sauce'.
vixen99 7y ago
Only one vital difference. Ketchup's tomato density is much greater that tomato sauce. In other words it's just a matter of intensity of flavor, thickness and consistency, all of which follow when the sauce is concentrated though it depends what flavor you want for either. No other magical characteristic required.
- arrrg 7y ago
  Vinegar and sugar are the two other vital components of tomato ketchup, with vinegar probably being the more characteristic of the two. (Tomatoes are naturally somewhat sweet, so you are always going to have some sweetness in your tomato sauce as a flavor component.) Both are either used not at all in tomato sauce or used in much, much lower doses. (I actually have sometimes used very low doses of balsamic vinegar in my tomato sauces but it’s an atypical ingredient. Sometimes adding carrots, honey or just a bit of sugar is recommended if your tomatoes are particularly sour and lacking in sweetness but that’s more as a workaround to hide not so tasty tomatoes. I have also done that in the past but we are talking about adding a pinch of sugar or a drop of honey, not having sugar as the third entry on your ingredients list.) Obviously, the texture of ketchup is also very smooth while tomato sauce can have many different textures, from completely smooth like ketchup to with substantial vegetable chunks. Depending on how long you cook the sauce those chunks will also be more or less soft. Also, tomato sauce can and probably often is much less thick than tomato ketchup and tomato sauce often has quite a bit of added fat (typically butter or olive oil or both). Ketchup is also typically served cold and tomato sauce hot but that’s more like the default. Both can go either way. So, yeah, I would say there are a lot of substantial differences between tomato ketchup and tomato sauce beyond just how concentrated the tomatoes are. But maybe we are talking past each other and what you call “tomato sauce” is actually something else entirely.

> It is easy to make tomato sauce without any ketchup What do you mean? Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!?

markdown 7y ago

> Tomato sauce is not ketchup, it's a completely different thing. Really? I've always assumed that ketchup is just what Americans call tomato sauce.

knodi 7y ago
No.
SllX 7y ago
Tomato jam would be better description, though that’s also a whole other condiment which is apparently pretty popular in South Africa. We don’t typically serve our pasta with ketchup[1]. [1] The Japanese however, might. https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ https://www.japanesecooking101.com/spaghetti-neapolitan/ I’ve tasted variants of this. It isn’t for me, but I never cared for ketchup.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  Fun fact: Japanese Naporitan pasta (basically spaghetti with ketchup) originates from US military rations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naporitan The Japanese can only blame themselves for the ketchup-flavored popsicles though: https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-popsicle-seriously/ https://soranews24.com/2014/03/27/we-drink-japans-spaghetti-...
michaelt 7y ago
Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. On the other hand, a pasta sauce would generally retain chunks of tomato, use less (or even no) vinegar, salt or sugar per unit volume; and it would be applied to non-greasy pasta in much larger volumes :)
- markdown 7y ago
  > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in, but it generally includes vinegar, salt and quite a lot of sugar; tends to have a consistent, lump-free texture; it's applied to greasy food like fries and hamburgers; and only about one tablespoon would be used per meal. What you've described is just called tomato sauce in my part of the world (Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand). So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. EDIT: I found this https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australia-tomato-sauce https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/heinz-ketchup-australi...
  - dagw 7y ago
    So what we call tomato sauce, you call ketchup. Interesting. Do you have a different word for the tomato based sauce made from fresh or canned tomatoes often used on pizzas and pasta?
    - NickNameNick 7y ago
      Pizza sauce (or possibly tomato paste), and pasta sauce, respectively. Tomato Sauce and Ketchup aren't quite the same thing here - ketchup is probably stronger and thicker, but they are used the same way.
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      We do tomato paste and tomato puree. Typically use the paste for a pizza base, and if you're making your own pasta sauce, tomato puree with a dollop of paste to up the tomatoeness.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    Ketchup tastes like it has more vinegar in it than tomato sauce, but that's a highly subjective Kiwi opinion. Incidentally, the best tomato sauce is whatever magical sauce they use on the hot-dogs at A&P shows.
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  > Ketchup is a sauce with tomatoes in Historically, ketchup was a class of condiments that all had a lot of umami like fish sauces and oyster sauces. Over time, different ketchups were invented, one of which was tomato ketchup. Its popularity grew, and the other ketchups were forgotten, so these days ketchup is synonymous with tomato ketchup.
hug 7y ago
Are you Australian? For the confused people in the audience: There is a product, in Australia, much like ketchup, marketed as “tomato sauce”. Yes, people make pasta sauce with it. Yes, pasta sauce made from scratch is better. It’s not so dissimilar from ketchup, just a little less vinegary.
- richrichardsson 7y ago
  British rarely refer to ketchup as ketchup, we almost exclusively refer to it as "tomato sauce".
  - pm215 7y ago
    I'm British, and I refer to ketchup as ketchup. This may be regional; I'm southern-English. I'd probably by default assume that if you said 'tomato sauce' you meant a generic tomato-based sauce, not the specific condiment Heinz &c make.
    - jfk13 7y ago
      Also southern English, and this matches my understanding of the terminology. But yes, I believe usage does vary regionally.
  - abrugsch 7y ago
    or even worse, "Red Sauce"
    - richrichardsson 7y ago
      Yeah, you hear that a lot in "greasy spoon" establishments, perhaps because there isn't enough tomato in the recipe to claim it as such?
  - _sid 7y ago
    I'm British and I've only ever experienced people calling it ketchup

dagw 7y ago

Is there people actually making tomato sauce with ketchup!? I've seen several recipes for tomato based sauces that use ketchup as an ingredient if that's what you mean. But it's used a flavoring ingredient, not as the bulk of the sauce.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> Tomato sauce is not ketchup Regionally, people where I live call ketchup 'tomato sauce', or sometimes 'red sauce'.

vixen99 7y ago

Only one vital difference. Ketchup's tomato density is much greater that tomato sauce. In other words it's just a matter of intensity of flavor, thickness and consistency, all of which follow when the sauce is concentrated though it depends what flavor you want for either. No other magical characteristic required.

arrrg 7y ago
Vinegar and sugar are the two other vital components of tomato ketchup, with vinegar probably being the more characteristic of the two. (Tomatoes are naturally somewhat sweet, so you are always going to have some sweetness in your tomato sauce as a flavor component.) Both are either used not at all in tomato sauce or used in much, much lower doses. (I actually have sometimes used very low doses of balsamic vinegar in my tomato sauces but it’s an atypical ingredient. Sometimes adding carrots, honey or just a bit of sugar is recommended if your tomatoes are particularly sour and lacking in sweetness but that’s more as a workaround to hide not so tasty tomatoes. I have also done that in the past but we are talking about adding a pinch of sugar or a drop of honey, not having sugar as the third entry on your ingredients list.) Obviously, the texture of ketchup is also very smooth while tomato sauce can have many different textures, from completely smooth like ketchup to with substantial vegetable chunks. Depending on how long you cook the sauce those chunks will also be more or less soft. Also, tomato sauce can and probably often is much less thick than tomato ketchup and tomato sauce often has quite a bit of added fat (typically butter or olive oil or both). Ketchup is also typically served cold and tomato sauce hot but that’s more like the default. Both can go either way. So, yeah, I would say there are a lot of substantial differences between tomato ketchup and tomato sauce beyond just how concentrated the tomatoes are. But maybe we are talking past each other and what you call “tomato sauce” is actually something else entirely.