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I'm not 100% sure, but I think this might be the first thing I've seen on HN front page, in all my time on this site, that actually motivated me to jump right i

I'm not 100% sure, but I think this might be the first thing I've seen on HN front page, in all my time on this site, that actually motivated me to jump right into criticism. Usually I just stay quiet if I don't have anything positive to say. First of all, before even clicking through, my reaction to the name was negative. To quote henrikberggren's comment: "Naming a learning platform 'Sugar' is like naming a rehab clinic 'Heroin'." Second, those stick figures look like skull-and-crossbones. Third, your sample "fun activity" looks less fun than anything a kid with a computer has access to. Fourth, creating a new user in your Sugarizer demo is an awful experience. It asked me to pick a name first, then let me go through the rest of the steps -- including "choosing" a new avatar color by clicking to get random colors until I just gave up -- and then, at the end, told me the user "foo" already exists. Fifth, I don't find the UI intuitive at all. When I'm inside an activity, if I want to go back to the activity selection page, I have to click on an octagon with a square inside it. No idea how I'm supposed to associate that with "home" or "back" or any of the verbs I could think of. Lastly, I tried out a few of the activities and I have no idea how any of that is supposed to help kids learn or collaborate. The "clock" activity just displays a clock. That's it. The "tam tam" activity has a confusing UI, but once you overcome the confusion, you can just pick different instruments to hear their sound. The most confusing was the "maze" activity, because I pressed one arrow key and it solved the whole maze. Later I realized that it follows the path until a decision point and then waits for input, but it's really weird. I appreciate that this must have taken substantial effort, but I have no idea just how this is supposed to be useful. And let's face it, I gave it more time than an average visitor probably would.

imulligan 7y ago
I agree with your comment, in its entirety.
Spooky23 7y ago
I played around with it for a bit. It's frustrating to me as there is alot of really cool stuff in the platform, but it is such an opinionated interface that it distracts from the overall mission. Some of the apps are too complex for very young children, but the interface feels too primitive for 6-9 year olds who aren't living in a cave. 5 year olds are adept on awful UI like YouTube, this is too simple. There are some really cool apps that would be better served in a more traditional Android/iOS style tablet interface. OLPC is/was very pushy about their point of view.
madc 7y ago
I was going to write a similar comment. Including the intro..
chrshawkes 7y ago
I avoid things like spot on, great comment etc., but yeah, this comment is exactly right.
blacksmith_tb 7y ago
Sugar is the original UI of the OLPC XO[1], circa 2006 - it's like a snapshot from a different world to us now. To be fair, lots of the activities are only fun when there are multiple users in the mesh network. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO
- war1025 7y ago
  Is OLPC still active? I remember it being a big deal for a few years and then never really heard anything about it since.
  - core-questions 7y ago
    It was a good idea, but probably too ambitious. I like better the idea of installing hardened kiosks in public areas - way easier to build and maintain with commodity parts. Portability is nice but it's honestly not critical.
    - dflock 7y ago
      That would be a completely different project, with totally different outcomes, though.
    - hcs 7y ago
      This reminds me of the "hole in the wall" kiosk, installed in a slum in New Delhi in a way that was supposed to be accessible only to children: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimally_invasive_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimally_invasive_education
  - shakna 7y ago
    Yes and no, so far as I'm aware. The project has lost a good deal of its funding, from what I've heard, and now has a lot less backing from the technical community (I think Collabora are the only backers now), placing the project's overall management mainly into the hands of educators, who don't tend to be the best at that side of things. So you end up with things where various parts of their various websites are broken, and there isn't as much well-handled PR going out. However, they are still somewhat active [0], but at a much smaller scale. Focusing on individual classrooms as goals, rather than the massively ambitious target of One Laptop Per Child in entire nations. [0] http://planet.sugarlabs.org/ http://planet.sugarlabs.org/
autoexec 7y ago
I thought that calling out the stick figures looking like skull-and-crossbones seemed really nit-picky, but then I went back to the website and allowed JavaScript to run and was immediately put off the by all the 3rd party hosted JavaScript libraries it demands, then saw all the skulls and cross bones that loaded and I realized that not only did I agree with you I was being far worse for being offended at the web design.
- yoz-y 7y ago
  They do a bit like skulls and cross bones but also they clearly are not. If anything kids could pretend that that are cool pirates.
  - autoexec 7y ago
    It's not that skulls and cross bones are so bad inherently as much as it is that it's just so unnecessary. It's just a really questionable design decision. There's no clear benefit to visually alluding to a near universal symbol of danger and poison. Especially considering that we really try to reinforce that association in young children. I certainly don't think it's going to cause kids emotional trauma or cause them to later drink whatever bottle of "Sugar game juice" they find under the kitchen sink, but with an nearly endless amount of alternatives why use that one?
    - yoz-y 7y ago
      > There's no clear benefit to visually alluding to a near universal symbol of danger and poison. I haven't thought of this. Makes sense.
xahrepap 7y ago
> have to click on an octagon with a square inside it. No idea how I'm supposed to associate that with "home" or "back" or any of the verbs I could think of. I believe it's "Stop". Stop sign and the square is the stop symbol common for media.
- intertextuality 7y ago
  Random or ambiguous icons without text is a huge UX failure. You can’t assume people will know what it means aside from very obvious ones like the floppy disk save icon.
  - spockz 7y ago
    The floppy disk save icon might be “very obvious” to you. But how is a kid of this era who has never seen a 3.5” floppy disk supposed to know that that means save?
    - intertextuality 7y ago
      Because every other website uses that or the down arrow. It can be not only objects seen in real life but also icons consistent with other sites. Anecdotally I’ve never seen a floppy disk in real life.
piperswe 7y ago
At least for me, a Sugar-based was extremely beneficial as a child (12 or so years ago). My Sugar-based OLPC XO-1 introduced me to programming and Linux, and gave me a system to use for experimenting with my UNIX SVR5 and C++ books. Sugar is mainly built for kids that never had access to a computer before a Sugar-based one (kids in developing countries; so I'm not the target audience either), so that might explain some of your complaints.
rektide 7y ago
Christ you have a lot of salt in your panties
rektide 7y ago
Your inability to see what is offered is remarkable. You seem only capable of spreading petty & superficial greivances. Maybe you really totally missed the whole point of the thing by honest means but more likely it seems you're trying to be mean, & picking small points to gripe over. Open your mind, bro.

imulligan 7y ago

I agree with your comment, in its entirety.

Spooky23 7y ago

I played around with it for a bit. It's frustrating to me as there is alot of really cool stuff in the platform, but it is such an opinionated interface that it distracts from the overall mission. Some of the apps are too complex for very young children, but the interface feels too primitive for 6-9 year olds who aren't living in a cave. 5 year olds are adept on awful UI like YouTube, this is too simple. There are some really cool apps that would be better served in a more traditional Android/iOS style tablet interface. OLPC is/was very pushy about their point of view.

madc 7y ago

I was going to write a similar comment. Including the intro..

chrshawkes 7y ago

I avoid things like spot on, great comment etc., but yeah, this comment is exactly right.

blacksmith_tb 7y ago

Sugar is the original UI of the OLPC XO[1], circa 2006 - it's like a snapshot from a different world to us now. To be fair, lots of the activities are only fun when there are multiple users in the mesh network. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO

war1025 7y ago
Is OLPC still active? I remember it being a big deal for a few years and then never really heard anything about it since.
- core-questions 7y ago
  It was a good idea, but probably too ambitious. I like better the idea of installing hardened kiosks in public areas - way easier to build and maintain with commodity parts. Portability is nice but it's honestly not critical.
  - dflock 7y ago
    That would be a completely different project, with totally different outcomes, though.
  - hcs 7y ago
    This reminds me of the "hole in the wall" kiosk, installed in a slum in New Delhi in a way that was supposed to be accessible only to children: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimally_invasive_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimally_invasive_education
- shakna 7y ago
  Yes and no, so far as I'm aware. The project has lost a good deal of its funding, from what I've heard, and now has a lot less backing from the technical community (I think Collabora are the only backers now), placing the project's overall management mainly into the hands of educators, who don't tend to be the best at that side of things. So you end up with things where various parts of their various websites are broken, and there isn't as much well-handled PR going out. However, they are still somewhat active [0], but at a much smaller scale. Focusing on individual classrooms as goals, rather than the massively ambitious target of One Laptop Per Child in entire nations. [0] http://planet.sugarlabs.org/ http://planet.sugarlabs.org/

autoexec 7y ago

I thought that calling out the stick figures looking like skull-and-crossbones seemed really nit-picky, but then I went back to the website and allowed JavaScript to run and was immediately put off the by all the 3rd party hosted JavaScript libraries it demands, then saw all the skulls and cross bones that loaded and I realized that not only did I agree with you I was being far worse for being offended at the web design.

yoz-y 7y ago
They do a bit like skulls and cross bones but also they clearly are not. If anything kids could pretend that that are cool pirates.
- autoexec 7y ago
  It's not that skulls and cross bones are so bad inherently as much as it is that it's just so unnecessary. It's just a really questionable design decision. There's no clear benefit to visually alluding to a near universal symbol of danger and poison. Especially considering that we really try to reinforce that association in young children. I certainly don't think it's going to cause kids emotional trauma or cause them to later drink whatever bottle of "Sugar game juice" they find under the kitchen sink, but with an nearly endless amount of alternatives why use that one?
  - yoz-y 7y ago
    > There's no clear benefit to visually alluding to a near universal symbol of danger and poison. I haven't thought of this. Makes sense.

xahrepap 7y ago

> have to click on an octagon with a square inside it. No idea how I'm supposed to associate that with "home" or "back" or any of the verbs I could think of. I believe it's "Stop". Stop sign and the square is the stop symbol common for media.

intertextuality 7y ago
Random or ambiguous icons without text is a huge UX failure. You can’t assume people will know what it means aside from very obvious ones like the floppy disk save icon.
- spockz 7y ago
  The floppy disk save icon might be “very obvious” to you. But how is a kid of this era who has never seen a 3.5” floppy disk supposed to know that that means save?
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    Because every other website uses that or the down arrow. It can be not only objects seen in real life but also icons consistent with other sites. Anecdotally I’ve never seen a floppy disk in real life.

piperswe 7y ago

At least for me, a Sugar-based was extremely beneficial as a child (12 or so years ago). My Sugar-based OLPC XO-1 introduced me to programming and Linux, and gave me a system to use for experimenting with my UNIX SVR5 and C++ books. Sugar is mainly built for kids that never had access to a computer before a Sugar-based one (kids in developing countries; so I'm not the target audience either), so that might explain some of your complaints.

rektide 7y ago

Christ you have a lot of salt in your panties

rektide 7y ago

Your inability to see what is offered is remarkable. You seem only capable of spreading petty & superficial greivances. Maybe you really totally missed the whole point of the thing by honest means but more likely it seems you're trying to be mean, & picking small points to gripe over. Open your mind, bro.