4 ms·

Wow. Having grown up abused by my own parents (in all ways except sexually), I identify with a lot of what he says. I used to think of suicide daily, now I jus

Wow. Having grown up abused by my own parents (in all ways except sexually), I identify with a lot of what he says. I used to think of suicide daily, now I just think of death. Counseling (sans drugs) is what helped me get there. It's good and bad now, but there's a positive trend. I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals (though he does use the word doctor, so "counselor" might not be totally accurate). My counselor's office is where I most feel like myself, it's where I feel safe. If only Bill had a situation like that, he might still be here today. I didn't know the guy personally, but I've read stories like this before, and one thing that stands out to me is how amazing some people that have been through trauma like this are. He went through all the hell that he did, dealt with it on a daily basis, yet still had the capacity to do great work, to make people laugh, to attract others to him, and to generally do awesome things (http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-code http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-...). Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.

bad_user 16y ago
I think that what killed him is mistrusting other people. He said he never talked to nobody about his situation, but it's impossible to have a good relationship with a great secret like that. He mentions his darkness, but I don't think that's what ended his relationships. He also mentions counselors reading notes from previous sessions, but to me that's a sign they were doing their job properly; as they say "the devil's in the details". I replied to you, seeing that you've got the same problems. I've suffered depression at some point, I can relate (somewhat), and I've gotten over it by being sincere about my problems with everybody and by fixing whatever I could fix (instead of hiding / ignoring them).
- yogipatel 16y ago
  I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable. I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me because that's what counselors are for — they're supposed to create an opportunity for someone like Bill to open up. It's clear to me he didn't like holding his trauma as a secret but was afraid of it being used against him somehow. Relationships are just an escape. He was aware of himself enough to know that, which is (was) a good sign. Darkness like his allows you to feel like you're head over heels in love in one moment, and then in another wonder WTF the point is if we're just going to die anyway. It's as if it were a drug. And like a drug, its efficacy fades over time. Good for you for being able to be honest and open about your problems! That takes balls. One technique that's worked while I'm in a depressed state is to just expect & accept it. When I get into a funk and think about how all I do is feel depressed, I tell myself, "No shit Yogi, of course you're going to feel this way, look at all the crap you have to deal with". Those few words don't get rid of the sad feeling, but it helps me get past it. I feel like that's all most people need, a way to get on with it. Even after years of therapy, I'm still amazed at how trained our brains can become. Unfortunately for many, that hard wiring forces them into a downward spiral, where from it's harder and harder to recover.
  - blinkingled 16y ago
    Yogi If I may - I will highly suggest you read Power of Now - chunk at a time, randomly, start to end whatever fits your bill. I see the seeds of acceptance in you so may be you have already read it - if not, please do.
    - crazydiamond 16y ago
      While reading the suicide note, and the 2 threads on this, i could not help wondering many many times how much it would have helped Bill had he read the Power of Now. One problem i notice is that people who are stuck in a problem, keep trying the same solution for decades even though its not worked. We need to look at our problem from other angles and be open to new solutions.
      - yogipatel 16y ago
        That's exactly why depression is so hard to shake. You beat yourself up repeatedly without even knowing it and wonder why the heck you can't just snap out of it. Sometimes I wonder how my counselor deals with telling me the same thing again and again for months. And then I sign her check :) Seems like this is a book worth checking out, thanks!
        crazydiamond 16y ago
        Its only worth it if you practice it. And it gets easier with practice. Since you mention your counselor, i assume you have been depressed. One big problem (to put it briefly) is that often depressed people identify with their depression/sadness and don't wish to leave it. They are their biggest enemy. You have to be willing to give it up. At the expense of sounding cliched, the only price to pay for happiness, is your unhappiness/misery and for many, its a huge price. Best of luck. Happiness and freedom do exist. What Bill Zeller spoke off does exist and is possible. > "I will never know what uncontimated intimacy is like. I will never have an exclusive bond with someone, someone who can be the recipient of all the love I have to give." So much of what he talks of, even i have suffered _without_ having been sexually abused. He did not realize that many feeling/thoughts he had, come and go in all humans, if they come to his mind. It's fine to just ignore them like all the dust that flies about us. Please also check out the youtubes of one Mooji. They have greatly deepened my practice.
AgentConundrum 16y ago
I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals I can relate to that part of the note. With one (minor?) exception, I've never seen a proper doctor about my issues, but I've been to a number of counselors over the years. Almost all of them have been completely useless to me, because I can clearly see that I'm not safe there. I think it's a bit like the situation Mr. Zeller faced. I don't want to go far into my issues, because this isn't the place for that and, even if it were, my issues are nothing compared to his, but suffice it to say that in high school I was pretty concerned about my ability to manage my anger. I managed to tell a guidance counselor this, one I'd known since I started high school (she had first been my French teacher, then was assigned to me when she transitioned into counseling), and asked to be referred to a counselor before I hurt someone. When I was with the counselor, however, although I was there explicitly because I was worried about hurting people, I was always measured in my responses. I limited what I said because I was always trying to determine where exactly the line was where a counselor becomes legally obligated to report me to someone, and I tried my damnedest to stay on my side of that line. It limited what I said, and it limited how much I could get out of the experience, and so ultimately everything broke down and the counselor more or less told me to come back when I was willing to actually talk. I ended up getting basically nothing out of the experience, except for some extra time with my grandparents since they lived near the counselors office. Considering my grandfather died in April, and I still think of him every day, I suppose I should be grateful for the experience because even if I got fuck all out of the actual counseling, I still got to see my grandparents more.
- bad_user 16y ago
  One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend, but someone that helps you solve your problems with professional advice (level of competency varies of course). Getting over any recurrent destructive mood is much like a war. First you need to go to war, then you need strategies, you need to work on it and there's going to be pain involved, with multiple battles won and lost. Going to counseling is one way to do it, another would be medication, or support groups or just good friends that care. Either way you have to deal with it and it isn't warm and cozy.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
'Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.' Reminds of an unattributed quote I heard somewhere: Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

bad_user 16y ago

I think that what killed him is mistrusting other people. He said he never talked to nobody about his situation, but it's impossible to have a good relationship with a great secret like that. He mentions his darkness, but I don't think that's what ended his relationships. He also mentions counselors reading notes from previous sessions, but to me that's a sign they were doing their job properly; as they say "the devil's in the details". I replied to you, seeing that you've got the same problems. I've suffered depression at some point, I can relate (somewhat), and I've gotten over it by being sincere about my problems with everybody and by fixing whatever I could fix (instead of hiding / ignoring them).

yogipatel 16y ago
I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable. I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me because that's what counselors are for — they're supposed to create an opportunity for someone like Bill to open up. It's clear to me he didn't like holding his trauma as a secret but was afraid of it being used against him somehow. Relationships are just an escape. He was aware of himself enough to know that, which is (was) a good sign. Darkness like his allows you to feel like you're head over heels in love in one moment, and then in another wonder WTF the point is if we're just going to die anyway. It's as if it were a drug. And like a drug, its efficacy fades over time. Good for you for being able to be honest and open about your problems! That takes balls. One technique that's worked while I'm in a depressed state is to just expect & accept it. When I get into a funk and think about how all I do is feel depressed, I tell myself, "No shit Yogi, of course you're going to feel this way, look at all the crap you have to deal with". Those few words don't get rid of the sad feeling, but it helps me get past it. I feel like that's all most people need, a way to get on with it. Even after years of therapy, I'm still amazed at how trained our brains can become. Unfortunately for many, that hard wiring forces them into a downward spiral, where from it's harder and harder to recover.
- blinkingled 16y ago
  Yogi If I may - I will highly suggest you read Power of Now - chunk at a time, randomly, start to end whatever fits your bill. I see the seeds of acceptance in you so may be you have already read it - if not, please do.
  - crazydiamond 16y ago
    While reading the suicide note, and the 2 threads on this, i could not help wondering many many times how much it would have helped Bill had he read the Power of Now. One problem i notice is that people who are stuck in a problem, keep trying the same solution for decades even though its not worked. We need to look at our problem from other angles and be open to new solutions.
    - yogipatel 16y ago
      That's exactly why depression is so hard to shake. You beat yourself up repeatedly without even knowing it and wonder why the heck you can't just snap out of it. Sometimes I wonder how my counselor deals with telling me the same thing again and again for months. And then I sign her check :) Seems like this is a book worth checking out, thanks!
      - crazydiamond 16y ago
        Its only worth it if you practice it. And it gets easier with practice. Since you mention your counselor, i assume you have been depressed. One big problem (to put it briefly) is that often depressed people identify with their depression/sadness and don't wish to leave it. They are their biggest enemy. You have to be willing to give it up. At the expense of sounding cliched, the only price to pay for happiness, is your unhappiness/misery and for many, its a huge price. Best of luck. Happiness and freedom do exist. What Bill Zeller spoke off does exist and is possible. > "I will never know what uncontimated intimacy is like. I will never have an exclusive bond with someone, someone who can be the recipient of all the love I have to give." So much of what he talks of, even i have suffered _without_ having been sexually abused. He did not realize that many feeling/thoughts he had, come and go in all humans, if they come to his mind. It's fine to just ignore them like all the dust that flies about us. Please also check out the youtubes of one Mooji. They have greatly deepened my practice.

AgentConundrum 16y ago

I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals I can relate to that part of the note. With one (minor?) exception, I've never seen a proper doctor about my issues, but I've been to a number of counselors over the years. Almost all of them have been completely useless to me, because I can clearly see that I'm not safe there. I think it's a bit like the situation Mr. Zeller faced. I don't want to go far into my issues, because this isn't the place for that and, even if it were, my issues are nothing compared to his, but suffice it to say that in high school I was pretty concerned about my ability to manage my anger. I managed to tell a guidance counselor this, one I'd known since I started high school (she had first been my French teacher, then was assigned to me when she transitioned into counseling), and asked to be referred to a counselor before I hurt someone. When I was with the counselor, however, although I was there explicitly because I was worried about hurting people, I was always measured in my responses. I limited what I said because I was always trying to determine where exactly the line was where a counselor becomes legally obligated to report me to someone, and I tried my damnedest to stay on my side of that line. It limited what I said, and it limited how much I could get out of the experience, and so ultimately everything broke down and the counselor more or less told me to come back when I was willing to actually talk. I ended up getting basically nothing out of the experience, except for some extra time with my grandparents since they lived near the counselors office. Considering my grandfather died in April, and I still think of him every day, I suppose I should be grateful for the experience because even if I got fuck all out of the actual counseling, I still got to see my grandparents more.

bad_user 16y ago
One thing you have to realize is that a counselor/doctor is not your friend, but someone that helps you solve your problems with professional advice (level of competency varies of course). Getting over any recurrent destructive mood is much like a war. First you need to go to war, then you need strategies, you need to work on it and there's going to be pain involved, with multiple battles won and lost. Going to counseling is one way to do it, another would be medication, or support groups or just good friends that care. Either way you have to deal with it and it isn't warm and cozy.

SkyMarshal 16y ago

'Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.' Reminds of an unattributed quote I heard somewhere: Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.