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> Public transit is publicly funded. For improvements in safety, cleanliness etc to happen, the systems need (public) money. All you are admitting here is that

by davesmith1983 7y ago

> Public transit is publicly funded. For improvements in safety, cleanliness etc to happen, the systems need (public) money. All you are admitting here is that the Government can't provide a compelling alternative to a more expensive form of transport. > But you will never pay fares because you're scared to take transit, and you probably would never vote in favor of a ballot measure to allocate more tax money to transit because you happen have a car and don't believe improved transit would benefit you anyway. Why vote to increase spending on something that doesn't benefit you? People won't and you won't convince anyone. This is an unrealistic standard you expect of other people, plus the high and mighty tone you are using won't win people over. > The population using public transit generally reflects the fact that our culture encourages anyone with enough money/resources to purchase and use a car -- leaving behind everyone who can't (e.g. cash poor, disabled). This scares off the more sensitive potential transit users who'd rather pretend these folks don't exist. This is such a biased representation of what the real problem is and you conveniently ignore things like violent thugs on public transport (I've experienced this several times in the UK), rowdy teenagers, drunks and the mentally ill. I used to have a guy who stank and wore a soccer ball on his head catch the same bus, large groups of teenage boys vandalising the train coaches or playing loud music on a quiet carriage and they are far from the worst I've encountered. No I don't want to have to deal with possibility of violence, nutcases and other general unpleasantness so I won't take the train (I am in the UK). > The jarring reality is that most Americans (and their political leadership) are classist, sheltered, and have a "fuck you, I got mine" attitude. I doubt they are. What they want to do is get on with their life with as little hassle as possible, like most people do. > Source: US lifelong resident of various large cities, no driver's license at the age of 31. So no real evidence what-so-ever other than your very biased opinion.

magduf 7y ago
>This is such a biased representation of what the real problem is and you conveniently ignore things like violent thugs on public transport (I've experienced this several times in the UK), rowdy teenagers, drunks and the mentally ill. Except these problems don't seem to exist at all on Japanese or German trains. Maybe there's just something seriously wrong with your country.
- davesmith1983 7y ago
  > Except these problems don't seem to exist at all on Japanese or German trains. Lets see if that is true: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/german-train-axe-attack-many-injured/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/german-train-axe... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/knife-attack-japanese-bullet-train-leaves-one-dead-two-injured/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/knife-attack-jap... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/tokyo-knife-attack-stabbing-sagamihara https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/tokyo-knife-at... https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/big-increase-in-sex-assaults-on-japan-s-trains-1-674437 https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/big-increase-in-sex-assa... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-07/women-subjected-to-daily-trauma-on-tokyo-subway-gropers/8166672 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-07/women-subjected-to-da... Doesn't seem that much better to me.
  - magduf 7y ago
    So you cherry-pick a few examples (one of which wasn't on public transit at all), and you think that's better than a place where 30,000 people per year are killed in auto crashes? Your likelihood of dying on a train in Japan are almost nil, whereas your likelihood of dying in your car on American roads are actually pretty significant, and it's one of the biggest causes of death of non-elderly people.
    - davesmith1983 7y ago
      I did not cherry-pick, I took some examples off of duck duck go to prove a point that everywhere has their problems and you probably shouldn't be criticising my country (which is quite rude) while completely ignoring the point I was making about public transport being quite unpleasant experience in general and why people quite rightly want to avoid it. The Government wherever that is will have to sort out those problems rather than just try guilty people into not using their cars.
      - magduf 7y ago
        > you probably shouldn't be criticising my country (which is quite rude) You're the one criticizing your country, not me. You're the one who said public transit there sucks, not me. I've never been there, so I can't comment on the Underground, but I've been to Germany and Japan and the public transit there is absolutely fantastic. It's not even that bad here in DC, though the reliability isn't that great. >ignoring the point I was making about public transport being quite unpleasant experience in general and why people quite rightly want to avoid it. No, I'm not ignoring your point at all, I'm calling it out as ignorant, which it is, because there's plenty of other places in the world with excellent public transit.
thex10 7y ago
Based on your response I'd say my opinion's no more biased than yours! > All you are admitting here is that the Government can't provide a compelling alternative to a more expensive form of transport. > Why vote to increase spending on something that doesn't benefit you? People won't and you won't convince anyone. This is an unrealistic standard you expect of other people, plus the high and mighty tone you are using won't win people over. I really don't get why so many folks insist on positioning Government as some sort of "other" entity, as if its functioning isn't directly affected by voters. Anyways, why support transit? Because it _does_ benefit you as a car user but you and your leadership refuses to see it. It's well documented that improving alternate modes of transportation helps alleviate traffic congestion by shifting some drivers to other modes, thus producing less wear and tear on the roads(and your car) and helping drivers get to where they're going faster and safer. Sorry, that's how it works. > No I don't want to have to deal with possibility of violence, nutcases and other general unpleasantness so I won't take the train I mean, sure. That's your right. But you _have_ an alternative, whereas many folks have no other choice but to risk the trip, so how exactly is not supporting transit not a "fuck you, I got mine" attitude?

magduf 7y ago

>This is such a biased representation of what the real problem is and you conveniently ignore things like violent thugs on public transport (I've experienced this several times in the UK), rowdy teenagers, drunks and the mentally ill. Except these problems don't seem to exist at all on Japanese or German trains. Maybe there's just something seriously wrong with your country.

davesmith1983 7y ago
> Except these problems don't seem to exist at all on Japanese or German trains. Lets see if that is true: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/german-train-axe-attack-many-injured/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/18/german-train-axe... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/knife-attack-japanese-bullet-train-leaves-one-dead-two-injured/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/10/knife-attack-jap... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/tokyo-knife-attack-stabbing-sagamihara https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/25/tokyo-knife-at... https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/big-increase-in-sex-assaults-on-japan-s-trains-1-674437 https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/big-increase-in-sex-assa... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-07/women-subjected-to-daily-trauma-on-tokyo-subway-gropers/8166672 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-07/women-subjected-to-da... Doesn't seem that much better to me.
- magduf 7y ago
  So you cherry-pick a few examples (one of which wasn't on public transit at all), and you think that's better than a place where 30,000 people per year are killed in auto crashes? Your likelihood of dying on a train in Japan are almost nil, whereas your likelihood of dying in your car on American roads are actually pretty significant, and it's one of the biggest causes of death of non-elderly people.
  - davesmith1983 7y ago
    I did not cherry-pick, I took some examples off of duck duck go to prove a point that everywhere has their problems and you probably shouldn't be criticising my country (which is quite rude) while completely ignoring the point I was making about public transport being quite unpleasant experience in general and why people quite rightly want to avoid it. The Government wherever that is will have to sort out those problems rather than just try guilty people into not using their cars.
    - magduf 7y ago
      > you probably shouldn't be criticising my country (which is quite rude) You're the one criticizing your country, not me. You're the one who said public transit there sucks, not me. I've never been there, so I can't comment on the Underground, but I've been to Germany and Japan and the public transit there is absolutely fantastic. It's not even that bad here in DC, though the reliability isn't that great. >ignoring the point I was making about public transport being quite unpleasant experience in general and why people quite rightly want to avoid it. No, I'm not ignoring your point at all, I'm calling it out as ignorant, which it is, because there's plenty of other places in the world with excellent public transit.

thex10 7y ago

Based on your response I'd say my opinion's no more biased than yours! > All you are admitting here is that the Government can't provide a compelling alternative to a more expensive form of transport. > Why vote to increase spending on something that doesn't benefit you? People won't and you won't convince anyone. This is an unrealistic standard you expect of other people, plus the high and mighty tone you are using won't win people over. I really don't get why so many folks insist on positioning Government as some sort of "other" entity, as if its functioning isn't directly affected by voters. Anyways, why support transit? Because it _does_ benefit you as a car user but you and your leadership refuses to see it. It's well documented that improving alternate modes of transportation helps alleviate traffic congestion by shifting some drivers to other modes, thus producing less wear and tear on the roads(and your car) and helping drivers get to where they're going faster and safer. Sorry, that's how it works. > No I don't want to have to deal with possibility of violence, nutcases and other general unpleasantness so I won't take the train I mean, sure. That's your right. But you _have_ an alternative, whereas many folks have no other choice but to risk the trip, so how exactly is not supporting transit not a "fuck you, I got mine" attitude?