5 ms·

In spite of the district court's merciful sentence, he has committed an aggravated felony in the eyes of immigration law and so is barred from ever entering the

In spite of the district court's merciful sentence, he has committed an aggravated felony in the eyes of immigration law and so is barred from ever entering the US again. For life.

mieseratte 7y ago
> he has committed an aggravated felony in the eyes of immigration law and so is barred from ever entering the US again. For life. IANAL but it sounds like he may be able to appeal based on a recent SCOTUS ruling[0]. > The result is that people convicted of certain crimes -- such as the California crime of burglary -- that are not by definition necessarily violent, may not be deportable. [0] - https://www.shouselaw.com/immigration/aggravated-felonies https://www.shouselaw.com/immigration/aggravated-felonies
- skissane 7y ago
  > IANAL but it sounds like he may be able to appeal based on a recent SCOTUS ruling[0]. For entry into the US on visa-waiver (ESTA) or visas (without a green card), you generally can't appeal to the courts, and court rulings about deportation aren't really relevant. It is up to the discretion of CBP (and also the State Department for visa issuance). They can decide to disregard a criminal conviction - they are more likely to do that if it is relatively minor, if there are some unusual/special circumstances, if it is from many years ago, if a person shows evidence of being of good character since then. But it is totally up to their discretion. If they rule against you, there is no formal right of appeal. You can talk to your own country's government, ask them to make diplomatic representations. If your own government decides to do so (they are under no obligation to do so), there is some chance they might change the US government's mind, but no guarantee.
  - filoleg 7y ago
    I have no idea how exactly those kinds of decisions are made, but I feel like the "evidence of good character since then" clause has a decent chance to work here. The whole domain redirection thing he did definitely saved quite a lot of pain for people and businesses worldwide.
    - sq_ 7y ago
      He said on Twitter earlier that a big part of the judge's decision to sentence him to time served was the character letters that a ton of people from the infosec industry that know him sent. That kind of thing could definitely be relevant for showing good character since his bygone days as a malware creator rather than researcher.
      - OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
        Good character letters sometimes backfire. The judge in the Ross Ulbricht case said that she sentenced him so harshly partly because she got many letters attesting to his good character, so she decided she needed to set a very public example.
        BigJono 7y ago
        I think the difference is probably that in the eyes of the American government, everything Ulbricht did was bad. Whereas Hutchins did some good at some point that could be weighed against the crimes he committed. Character letters don't mean anything if the acts that gave that person their standing in the community are seen as wrong by the court.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    You can probably sue in Federal court. You’d have to have an attorney though.. people on no fly lists outside the US have to do that.
    - skissane 7y ago
      Anyone can file a lawsuit at any time. The question is, what is the odds of success? Non-greencard holders who are refused visas for the US, or refused entry to the US, have a very low likelihood of success, given which most immigration attorneys will advise that (absent some special circumstances) filing such lawsuits is a waste of time. (If you can make the case that the visa/entry refusal was due to some improper reason, such as racial or religious discrimination, political vendetta, government corruption, etc., then you might have some chance, but even then the odds are not that great. But if your case is simply "they won't let me in due to my prior felony conviction in a US federal court but I don't think that's fair", then your odds of success are almost exactly zero.) (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    Are you saying the article I’ve linked, published by immigration attorneys, is wrong? They’ve quite clearly stated the opposite of your claims, that there is legal recourse available.
    - cjbprime 7y ago
      I don't see a disagreement about whether your article is correct. Your article talks about which crimes are deportable, not which crimes may result in a later visa application to the US being denied.
      - skissane 7y ago
        Exactly. Deportation proceedings are a separate issue from visa issuance and entry. Courts show far greater deference to the executive on visa issuance and entry decisions to non-residents (and temporary residents) than they do in deportation.
evilmoo 7y ago
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
- andremat 7y ago
  Marcus said he'd rather stay in LA : https://twitter.com/malwaretechblog/status/1144866309856829440?s=21 https://twitter.com/malwaretechblog/status/11448663098568294...
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post flamebait to HN. We ban accounts that do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and posting in the spirit of the site from now on, we'd appreciate it.
jessaustin 7y ago
He's already here, and sentenced to a year of supervised release. ISTM he can file whatever papers he needs to while he's physically present?
scandox 7y ago
Most people in the world will never be able to visit the United States but they seem somehow to survive.
travmatt 7y ago
Is that really unusual for countries to ban travel to foreigners with criminal records? I was under the impression most countries had similar laws.
- wp381640 7y ago
  I've looked into this an the USA is uniquely strict in their standards amongst western nations. Most countries give people a second chance in cases except for very serious crimes.
  - Aloha 7y ago
    Canada is seemingly uniquely strict about people with a DUI, which is generally not a felony in the states, I know several people who are basically barred from Canada because of this.
qwsxyh 7y ago
I didn't realise the US court gave out rewards.

In spite of the district court's merciful sentence, he has committed an aggravated felony in the eyes of immigration law and so is barred from ever entering the US again. For life.

mieseratte 7y ago

> he has committed an aggravated felony in the eyes of immigration law and so is barred from ever entering the US again. For life. IANAL but it sounds like he may be able to appeal based on a recent SCOTUS ruling[0]. > The result is that people convicted of certain crimes -- such as the California crime of burglary -- that are not by definition necessarily violent, may not be deportable. [0] - https://www.shouselaw.com/immigration/aggravated-felonies https://www.shouselaw.com/immigration/aggravated-felonies

skissane 7y ago
> IANAL but it sounds like he may be able to appeal based on a recent SCOTUS ruling[0]. For entry into the US on visa-waiver (ESTA) or visas (without a green card), you generally can't appeal to the courts, and court rulings about deportation aren't really relevant. It is up to the discretion of CBP (and also the State Department for visa issuance). They can decide to disregard a criminal conviction - they are more likely to do that if it is relatively minor, if there are some unusual/special circumstances, if it is from many years ago, if a person shows evidence of being of good character since then. But it is totally up to their discretion. If they rule against you, there is no formal right of appeal. You can talk to your own country's government, ask them to make diplomatic representations. If your own government decides to do so (they are under no obligation to do so), there is some chance they might change the US government's mind, but no guarantee.
- filoleg 7y ago
  I have no idea how exactly those kinds of decisions are made, but I feel like the "evidence of good character since then" clause has a decent chance to work here. The whole domain redirection thing he did definitely saved quite a lot of pain for people and businesses worldwide.
  - sq_ 7y ago
    He said on Twitter earlier that a big part of the judge's decision to sentence him to time served was the character letters that a ton of people from the infosec industry that know him sent. That kind of thing could definitely be relevant for showing good character since his bygone days as a malware creator rather than researcher.
    - OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
      Good character letters sometimes backfire. The judge in the Ross Ulbricht case said that she sentenced him so harshly partly because she got many letters attesting to his good character, so she decided she needed to set a very public example.
      - BigJono 7y ago
        I think the difference is probably that in the eyes of the American government, everything Ulbricht did was bad. Whereas Hutchins did some good at some point that could be weighed against the crimes he committed. Character letters don't mean anything if the acts that gave that person their standing in the community are seen as wrong by the court.
- sjg007 7y ago
  You can probably sue in Federal court. You’d have to have an attorney though.. people on no fly lists outside the US have to do that.
  - skissane 7y ago
    Anyone can file a lawsuit at any time. The question is, what is the odds of success? Non-greencard holders who are refused visas for the US, or refused entry to the US, have a very low likelihood of success, given which most immigration attorneys will advise that (absent some special circumstances) filing such lawsuits is a waste of time. (If you can make the case that the visa/entry refusal was due to some improper reason, such as racial or religious discrimination, political vendetta, government corruption, etc., then you might have some chance, but even then the odds are not that great. But if your case is simply "they won't let me in due to my prior felony conviction in a US federal court but I don't think that's fair", then your odds of success are almost exactly zero.) (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
- mieseratte 7y ago
  Are you saying the article I’ve linked, published by immigration attorneys, is wrong? They’ve quite clearly stated the opposite of your claims, that there is legal recourse available.
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    I don't see a disagreement about whether your article is correct. Your article talks about which crimes are deportable, not which crimes may result in a later visa application to the US being denied.
    - skissane 7y ago
      Exactly. Deportation proceedings are a separate issue from visa issuance and entry. Courts show far greater deference to the executive on visa issuance and entry decisions to non-residents (and temporary residents) than they do in deportation.

evilmoo 7y ago

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

andremat 7y ago
Marcus said he'd rather stay in LA : https://twitter.com/malwaretechblog/status/1144866309856829440?s=21 https://twitter.com/malwaretechblog/status/11448663098568294...
dang 7y ago
Please don't post flamebait to HN. We ban accounts that do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and posting in the spirit of the site from now on, we'd appreciate it.

jessaustin 7y ago

He's already here, and sentenced to a year of supervised release. ISTM he can file whatever papers he needs to while he's physically present?

scandox 7y ago

Most people in the world will never be able to visit the United States but they seem somehow to survive.

travmatt 7y ago

Is that really unusual for countries to ban travel to foreigners with criminal records? I was under the impression most countries had similar laws.

wp381640 7y ago
I've looked into this an the USA is uniquely strict in their standards amongst western nations. Most countries give people a second chance in cases except for very serious crimes.
- Aloha 7y ago
  Canada is seemingly uniquely strict about people with a DUI, which is generally not a felony in the states, I know several people who are basically barred from Canada because of this.

qwsxyh 7y ago

I didn't realise the US court gave out rewards.