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I do not know how others feel. But I feel resentment towards embargoes (and calling their poodle countries to follow suite) placed on other countries just becau

I do not know how others feel. But I feel resentment towards embargoes (and calling their poodle countries to follow suite) placed on other countries just because they don't tow your line. Going to Iran's backyard and threatening them and then cry when they retaliate (a pretext to start war)...its so...pathetic. In fact most of the 20th century wars were started using this kind of baiting.

stale2002 7y ago
> just because they don't tow your line. Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. So, let's rephrase your original statement to instead say "just because they continue to fund militant groups that kill lots of people". Rephrased that way, your original comment does not sounds so reasonable.
- molteanu 7y ago
  > funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people You're talking about US, right?
  - jackaroe78 7y ago
    Obviously
  - glenndebacker 7y ago
    I was under the impression he was talking about Saudi Arabia. Don’t know how this is in other countries but there seems to be a line with local mosques where they preach extremism and always get their funding from people within that country.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    This thread is about Iran. You can criticize other nations if you feel like it. That doesn't change the true fact that Iran does indeed funding militant groups that kill lots of people, and therefore the "Oh, boo hoo, Iran is being targeted because they refuse to tow the line" thing is silly. That is my only point. That it is silly to play the sympathy card when we are discussing funding militant groups.
    - Assadi 7y ago
      I don't think it is that silly. The governments of the West are totally chill with regimes that are just as brutal, if not more brutal, than Iran, like Saudi Arabia. The difference really is mostly just "which side are you on".
      - stale2002 7y ago
        "But another brutal theocracy is able to get away with stuff that is just as bad!" isn't a particularly convincing argument for why we should allow a different brutal theocracy to also get away with bad stuff. Feel free to argue that other bad governments that do bad things, should also be sanctioned or stopped in some way. That does not change the true fact Iran does indeed fund militant groups, and that this is a good justification for opposing them. In my world more bad countries are targeted with economic sanctions, where in your world, less of them are opposed and they are able to get away with the bad things that that do. See the difference?
        Assadi 7y ago
        I am not saying that either Iran or Saudi Arabia should be able to X, Y or Z. I'm not going for a "the Saudis do it so Iran should too" argument. Rather, I am simply saying that the sanctions themselves are just an imperialist American power move. Again, it's not actually about whether Iran is good or bad. If it was simply about good VS evil, nobody would be standing idly as the Saudis yeet missiles into Yemeni civilians. The sanctions are a joke. It is all about American political agenda.
        stale2002 7y ago
        > I am simply saying that the sanctions themselves are just an imperialist American power move. Ok, and my original point is that it is ridiculous to have sympathy for Iran, given their actions. You can feel free to think that America is doing this for multiple reasons. But that does not change the fact that Iran is indeed funding militant groups. Therefore, nobody should start crying about them being sanctioned, and trying to make people feel bad about a country that is funding a lot of militant groups, being sanctioned.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Phlarp 7y ago
  >We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. No, that's Saudi Arabia, our partners in peace.
  - zhengiszen 7y ago
    Saudi Arabia following the US method...
  - swarnie_ 7y ago
    It's always confused me... Why do you supply weapons, money and military training to the country which 9/11'd you?
    - darkpuma 7y ago
      In America, nothing is more sacred than cash.
- knowThySelfx 7y ago
  >> We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people I wish it was so one sided like we wish to paint it here. But starting a thread about this will only contribute to a never ending discussion thread. There is no moral high ground here. What we can do is to step away from this madness and try to make a general sense of it. All this warmongering is unneeded.
  - codebolt 7y ago
    Agreed. If you look at the actions of either Iran, Saudi Arabia or Israel you can easily find many things that seem morally indefensible from a purely humanistic standpoint. Whatever the mechanism the US has for picking it's allies, it's pretty clear that it's not simply based on some rigorous moral analysis of the different actors. As long as the Iranian regime insists on maintaining "Death to America" as their political slogan, it's understandable that the US will maintain some level of hostility. But to try and paint it as Iran being purely evil and Israel/SA being purely good (or vice versa) is disingenuous.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    > There is no moral high ground here. Ok, so if there is no moral highground here, then don't play the sympathy card about Iran not "towing the line". Like fine. Its complicated. You were the one who originally trying to make it out to be one sided. And I am saying that this is ridiculous. They fund militant groups. > All this warmongering is unneeded. This is about sanctions. Not a ground invasion of Iran. It is not "warmongering" to support effective economic measures in retaliation against economic funding of militant groups.
    - Bootvis 7y ago
      Implementing sanctions are economic warfare supported by superior force.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      Are you generally against "funding of militant groups", or only when somebody else does it?
- jussij 7y ago
  The problem is the report that Iran is a country funding lots of militant groups comes out of the USA and it's recent actions means it has lost all credibility. Just in recent times we have seen the USA spy on it's own nationals (NSA) and invade a country based on a lies (WMD in Iraq). The USA also has a long history of propping up murderous dictators (MBS just the most recent) and it now has a president who loves being photographed with tyrants like Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin. So while the claims being made might even be true, because these are USA claims the statements needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    I don't have to take the statements of the USA. All I have to do is listen to the claims that Iran makes, about who it funds, the actions it is taking, and planning on taking. The stuff that Iran itself says it wants to do, such as that it wants to wipe Israel from the face of the map, is bad enough.
    - jussij 7y ago
      > All I have to do is listen to the claims that Iran makes, about who it funds, the actions it is taking, and planning on taking. So what sources are you quoting? Any link would be good.
      - stale2002 7y ago
        "Ahmadinejad says Israel will be "eliminated"" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-assembly-ahmadinejad/in-new-york-defiant-ahmadinejad-says-israel-will-be-eliminated-idUSBRE88N0HF20120924 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-assembly-ahmadinejad/i... It is very easy to find multiple insano statements that the leaders of Iran make. I found this one in a couple seconds. You can also just look at their involvement with the Assad regime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syr...
- stunt 7y ago
  > Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people You know U.S. actually did fund militant groups directly a few times because we thought we can make it a better place. In fact that’s how big, powerful complicated militant groups started to rise in the Middle East and they are out of control now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Not to mention, that is kind of still on going with all the support to Saudi Arabia. When it comes to Iran, 1953, U.S. and UK did overthrow the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran only because his interests wasn’t aligned with ours! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état Before that, During the WWII, British and Russians invaded Iran and did overthrow Iranian king because he was neutral and we needed their oil fields. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Ira... And then revolution happened in Iran and this time people did overthrow the last King who was introducing many social, economic, and political reforms in Iran but we hated him because he was moving too fast for our interests. (Skipping some conspiracy theories about how CIA did trigger the revolution by turning people against the king) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imil1iIpIYA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imil1iIpIYA And then Iraq/Saddam Hossein(Yes! Same guy that U.S. killed after the U.S. invasion of Iraq) was supported directly, intelligence and military, by the U.S. to invade Iran as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. Which took them 8 years and it was one of the deadliest conventional war ever fought in modern history, and both countries never recovered from it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War And that’s my friend every single man/government they had in power since 1940. So no wonder why it’s so fucked up in Middle East now. Every single time we thought we can make it a better place, But there are consequences to foreign interventions that we can’t control. One of the the richest regions in the world in terms of natural resources and history consequently is in complete misery as a result.
  - jki275 7y ago
    There are a whole lot of reasons other than foreign intervention that the middle east is "complete misery".
kweks 7y ago
Most of the comments below you are correct in the scope of the last 10 years, but in the context of the last 50 are absurd. For those curious about how and where the whole "Iran thing" started: A freely elected Iranian president decided to nationalise oil fields. This irked British Petroleum (Anglo-Iranian Oil Company at the time..) and the USA, so they initiated a coup to overthow the government [1], complete with CIA-paid Iranian mobsters to push the Shah regime. Years after this imposed rule, the western-propped government was overthrown with an.. anti-western government. If you look at Iran with the context of 15 - 20 years history, it's impossible to understand the government's rabid anti-west stance. If you zoom out a little bit more - you understand completely. Finally - the Iranian people suffer incredibly under this regime. The Persian culture has over 5000 years of rich (non-islamic, incidentally..) history. I'd sincerely advise traveling to Iran if you'd like to understand geo-politics a little better. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
- knowThySelfx 7y ago
  Yeah I was aware of this. Didn't state it here since I thought most of the people here are intelligent enough to understand what really happened. I saw a few here trying to play the "timeline" game (like you stated about the time frame). To what end? EDIT - Does not mean you are playing this timeline game. I meant a few others.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  Travelling in Iran is amazing experience - completely unspoiled from tourism, amazing history left and right, very warm and welcoming people, almost everybody speaks OK english (and most signs are dual farsi/english). For an experienced travelers / backpackers, this is one of the best places to experience these days. Btw one addition - we all know that US embassy was stormed and employees held hostage in 1979. It gave US political ammunition for decades to come. Do you know why it was stormed? Because it was proper CIA headquarters in all this meddling and impoverishment of iranian people for decades. They shielded themselves with diplomatic immunity. Not something you see mentioned in the (rather bad for all that empty patriotism) movies. But wouldn't you be pissed off if they did this to your own country? To have the potential for greatness due to rich oil reserves, but having little from it because some foreign power installs corrupt ruler to have safe access to oil. Sounds like an african story. Those employees taken? Most were involved or directly in CIA payroll. No respect there, nor much sympathy. Spies are generally either executed or traded for.

stale2002 7y ago

> just because they don't tow your line. Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. So, let's rephrase your original statement to instead say "just because they continue to fund militant groups that kill lots of people". Rephrased that way, your original comment does not sounds so reasonable.

molteanu 7y ago
> funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people You're talking about US, right?
- jackaroe78 7y ago
  Obviously
- glenndebacker 7y ago
  I was under the impression he was talking about Saudi Arabia. Don’t know how this is in other countries but there seems to be a line with local mosques where they preach extremism and always get their funding from people within that country.
- stale2002 7y ago
  This thread is about Iran. You can criticize other nations if you feel like it. That doesn't change the true fact that Iran does indeed funding militant groups that kill lots of people, and therefore the "Oh, boo hoo, Iran is being targeted because they refuse to tow the line" thing is silly. That is my only point. That it is silly to play the sympathy card when we are discussing funding militant groups.
  - Assadi 7y ago
    I don't think it is that silly. The governments of the West are totally chill with regimes that are just as brutal, if not more brutal, than Iran, like Saudi Arabia. The difference really is mostly just "which side are you on".
    - stale2002 7y ago
      "But another brutal theocracy is able to get away with stuff that is just as bad!" isn't a particularly convincing argument for why we should allow a different brutal theocracy to also get away with bad stuff. Feel free to argue that other bad governments that do bad things, should also be sanctioned or stopped in some way. That does not change the true fact Iran does indeed fund militant groups, and that this is a good justification for opposing them. In my world more bad countries are targeted with economic sanctions, where in your world, less of them are opposed and they are able to get away with the bad things that that do. See the difference?
      - Assadi 7y ago
        I am not saying that either Iran or Saudi Arabia should be able to X, Y or Z. I'm not going for a "the Saudis do it so Iran should too" argument. Rather, I am simply saying that the sanctions themselves are just an imperialist American power move. Again, it's not actually about whether Iran is good or bad. If it was simply about good VS evil, nobody would be standing idly as the Saudis yeet missiles into Yemeni civilians. The sanctions are a joke. It is all about American political agenda.
        stale2002 7y ago
        > I am simply saying that the sanctions themselves are just an imperialist American power move. Ok, and my original point is that it is ridiculous to have sympathy for Iran, given their actions. You can feel free to think that America is doing this for multiple reasons. But that does not change the fact that Iran is indeed funding militant groups. Therefore, nobody should start crying about them being sanctioned, and trying to make people feel bad about a country that is funding a lot of militant groups, being sanctioned.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Phlarp 7y ago
>We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people. No, that's Saudi Arabia, our partners in peace.
- zhengiszen 7y ago
  Saudi Arabia following the US method...
- swarnie_ 7y ago
  It's always confused me... Why do you supply weapons, money and military training to the country which 9/11'd you?
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    In America, nothing is more sacred than cash.
knowThySelfx 7y ago
>> We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people I wish it was so one sided like we wish to paint it here. But starting a thread about this will only contribute to a never ending discussion thread. There is no moral high ground here. What we can do is to step away from this madness and try to make a general sense of it. All this warmongering is unneeded.
- codebolt 7y ago
  Agreed. If you look at the actions of either Iran, Saudi Arabia or Israel you can easily find many things that seem morally indefensible from a purely humanistic standpoint. Whatever the mechanism the US has for picking it's allies, it's pretty clear that it's not simply based on some rigorous moral analysis of the different actors. As long as the Iranian regime insists on maintaining "Death to America" as their political slogan, it's understandable that the US will maintain some level of hostility. But to try and paint it as Iran being purely evil and Israel/SA being purely good (or vice versa) is disingenuous.
- stale2002 7y ago
  > There is no moral high ground here. Ok, so if there is no moral highground here, then don't play the sympathy card about Iran not "towing the line". Like fine. Its complicated. You were the one who originally trying to make it out to be one sided. And I am saying that this is ridiculous. They fund militant groups. > All this warmongering is unneeded. This is about sanctions. Not a ground invasion of Iran. It is not "warmongering" to support effective economic measures in retaliation against economic funding of militant groups.
  - Bootvis 7y ago
    Implementing sanctions are economic warfare supported by superior force.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    Are you generally against "funding of militant groups", or only when somebody else does it?
jussij 7y ago
The problem is the report that Iran is a country funding lots of militant groups comes out of the USA and it's recent actions means it has lost all credibility. Just in recent times we have seen the USA spy on it's own nationals (NSA) and invade a country based on a lies (WMD in Iraq). The USA also has a long history of propping up murderous dictators (MBS just the most recent) and it now has a president who loves being photographed with tyrants like Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin. So while the claims being made might even be true, because these are USA claims the statements needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
- stale2002 7y ago
  I don't have to take the statements of the USA. All I have to do is listen to the claims that Iran makes, about who it funds, the actions it is taking, and planning on taking. The stuff that Iran itself says it wants to do, such as that it wants to wipe Israel from the face of the map, is bad enough.
  - jussij 7y ago
    > All I have to do is listen to the claims that Iran makes, about who it funds, the actions it is taking, and planning on taking. So what sources are you quoting? Any link would be good.
    - stale2002 7y ago
      "Ahmadinejad says Israel will be "eliminated"" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-assembly-ahmadinejad/in-new-york-defiant-ahmadinejad-says-israel-will-be-eliminated-idUSBRE88N0HF20120924 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-un-assembly-ahmadinejad/i... It is very easy to find multiple insano statements that the leaders of Iran make. I found this one in a couple seconds. You can also just look at their involvement with the Assad regime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syr...
stunt 7y ago
> Let's be specific what we are talking about here. We are talking about a country funding lots of militant groups that kill lots of people You know U.S. actually did fund militant groups directly a few times because we thought we can make it a better place. In fact that’s how big, powerful complicated militant groups started to rise in the Middle East and they are out of control now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone Not to mention, that is kind of still on going with all the support to Saudi Arabia. When it comes to Iran, 1953, U.S. and UK did overthrow the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran only because his interests wasn’t aligned with ours! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état Before that, During the WWII, British and Russians invaded Iran and did overthrow Iranian king because he was neutral and we needed their oil fields. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Ira... And then revolution happened in Iran and this time people did overthrow the last King who was introducing many social, economic, and political reforms in Iran but we hated him because he was moving too fast for our interests. (Skipping some conspiracy theories about how CIA did trigger the revolution by turning people against the king) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imil1iIpIYA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imil1iIpIYA And then Iraq/Saddam Hossein(Yes! Same guy that U.S. killed after the U.S. invasion of Iraq) was supported directly, intelligence and military, by the U.S. to invade Iran as a counterbalance to post-revolutionary Iran. Which took them 8 years and it was one of the deadliest conventional war ever fought in modern history, and both countries never recovered from it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War And that’s my friend every single man/government they had in power since 1940. So no wonder why it’s so fucked up in Middle East now. Every single time we thought we can make it a better place, But there are consequences to foreign interventions that we can’t control. One of the the richest regions in the world in terms of natural resources and history consequently is in complete misery as a result.
- jki275 7y ago
  There are a whole lot of reasons other than foreign intervention that the middle east is "complete misery".

kweks 7y ago

Most of the comments below you are correct in the scope of the last 10 years, but in the context of the last 50 are absurd. For those curious about how and where the whole "Iran thing" started: A freely elected Iranian president decided to nationalise oil fields. This irked British Petroleum (Anglo-Iranian Oil Company at the time..) and the USA, so they initiated a coup to overthow the government [1], complete with CIA-paid Iranian mobsters to push the Shah regime. Years after this imposed rule, the western-propped government was overthrown with an.. anti-western government. If you look at Iran with the context of 15 - 20 years history, it's impossible to understand the government's rabid anti-west stance. If you zoom out a little bit more - you understand completely. Finally - the Iranian people suffer incredibly under this regime. The Persian culture has over 5000 years of rich (non-islamic, incidentally..) history. I'd sincerely advise traveling to Iran if you'd like to understand geo-politics a little better. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

knowThySelfx 7y ago
Yeah I was aware of this. Didn't state it here since I thought most of the people here are intelligent enough to understand what really happened. I saw a few here trying to play the "timeline" game (like you stated about the time frame). To what end? EDIT - Does not mean you are playing this timeline game. I meant a few others.
saiya-jin 7y ago
Travelling in Iran is amazing experience - completely unspoiled from tourism, amazing history left and right, very warm and welcoming people, almost everybody speaks OK english (and most signs are dual farsi/english). For an experienced travelers / backpackers, this is one of the best places to experience these days. Btw one addition - we all know that US embassy was stormed and employees held hostage in 1979. It gave US political ammunition for decades to come. Do you know why it was stormed? Because it was proper CIA headquarters in all this meddling and impoverishment of iranian people for decades. They shielded themselves with diplomatic immunity. Not something you see mentioned in the (rather bad for all that empty patriotism) movies. But wouldn't you be pissed off if they did this to your own country? To have the potential for greatness due to rich oil reserves, but having little from it because some foreign power installs corrupt ruler to have safe access to oil. Sounds like an african story. Those employees taken? Most were involved or directly in CIA payroll. No respect there, nor much sympathy. Spies are generally either executed or traded for.