6 ms·

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel

There is a distinction between the pressure that comes from growing up in a "tiger family" and the consequences of growing up with the "smart" label, and I feel like the author is conflating the two. Personally, growing up with the label (but not the parental pressure) was one of the best things that could have happened for me and my education - the fact that others believed (whether true or not) that I was lightyears ahead of the class afforded me numerous opportunities - special classes, programs, etc. And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. Did it inflate my ego a bit as a kid? Sure - but I had good role models to look up to who helped me tamp that down a bit, and I had plenty of time to figure out that I wasn't the smartest kid in the world once I got to MIT (which I might not have gotten into had I not so fervently believed I would!). I can't comment on what it's like to grow up with the extreme parental pressure the author describes - I didn't experience that, and I'm sorry she had to go through that. But I think that's an entirely separate issue from growing up with the "gifted" label.

rjsw 7y ago
Seems to me that having the label gives you confidence that if you think you understand something then you are probably correct. You can then build on that to learn the next thing quicker.
XMPPwocky 7y ago
> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybody else hates you) to absurdity- at one point I got an evaluation back from a summer program at Stanford telling me I might grow up to be "one of the best programmers of our age". What did I do to earn such acclaim? Got ahead of the rest of the class making a game, read the documentation for Flash, and used the extra time to add "voice controls" to my game (specifically, you'd shoot by yelling anything into your microphone, it was just triggered by levels.) Seriously- how can you take that sort of praise seriously, and not just as a "look at the cute kid who knows more Adobe Flash than the rest of his age group"?
- XMPPwocky 7y ago
  As an afterthought, the one thing I do actually find to help with my self-esteem is finding security bugs in places I know others have already looked. There, it's objective- you did something nobody else could. That... that's believable. But essentially any praise from humans is not.
  - em-bee 7y ago
    or just to be able to keep going until i find that bug where others have given up.
- pizza 7y ago
  It's nice to hear I'm not the only one as a kid whose reflex was to get suspicious of/thought it was lazy when/ people would quickly decide "you're smart". It seemed to me just like a way to score cheap points. It also made me feel worse about not understanding things easily.. people were telling me I was smart, after all! :P My sister, on the other hand, gets annoyed at my perspective - she finds it tiresome when people can't take the compliment. There's wisdom to both ways, I guess.
  - striking 7y ago
    You can be nice about a well-meaning but ultimately misguided complement without taking it seriously.
    - pizza 7y ago
      Agreed, though it took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that, haha.
    - alexanderdmitri 7y ago
      Someone once pointed out to me I had a tendency to momentarily scowl when complimented and then pretend I hadn't heard it. Made sense because compliments made me feel weird, even though I freely gave them out. Since then I've trained myself to smile, make eye-contact and say "Thank you, I accept your compliment with confidence," before returning to the matter at hand.
shripadk 7y ago
The difference is subtle. The difference is that you were called "smart" in the areas you showed interest in. That propelled you to improve further and always be ahead of your contemporaries. In her case (and many in China and India - where I come from) society has certain expectations from you. It doesn't matter if you are interested in something else entirely. Maybe you have a liking for arts. Or for music. These are considered "secondary". There are certain core subjects that you have to compulsorily master else you won't have any "value" in society. Now when you get labelled "smart" for something you have no interest in but you have to do because you have no choice that label doesn't really give you any satisfaction. It just so happens that you did it because the society wants you to. Not because you want to. And then you have to live up to the label now that everyone knows you are "smart". It is a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of. That doesn't mean the society discourages you from learning arts, music or anything else. You have to make room for it in your spare time. Also, examinations to get into prestigious universities are brutal compared to the West. Around a million students (10.43 lakhs in 2018) take up the IIT JEE exam and only around 10,000 qualify. You can take a look at how tough the exam is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_x13xHjVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_x13xHjVs To prepare for this, you would have to spend countless hours solving and sleepless nights studying. And even after all that, your chance at success is 1%. I am not even considering Medical (NEET), MBA (CAT) or Civil Services (UPSC) which is equally hard. EDIT: Corrected 0.01% to 1%.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  > Around a million students (10.43 lakhs in 2018) take up the IIT JEE exam and only around 10,000 qualify. > To prepare for this, you would have to spend countless hours solving and sleepless nights studying. And even after all that, your chance at success is 0.01%. Your numbers suggest 1%, not 0.01%. 0.01% of a million examinees would be 100 passing scores.
  - shripadk 7y ago
    Ah sorry I meant to say 1% (I was thinking 0.01 in my head). Edited it. Thanks!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
chess93 7y ago
I'm glad the label worked for you but it did not work at all for me. It kind of shoehorned me in to a personality type and limited my social options. In all honesty I look back at my "smartness" as a kind of attention-seeking behavior where all I really wanted was the attention you got from getting the highest grade in the class or being the only one from your school to go to the ivy league. To me, the smart label just means you are willing to sacrifice more than others to study/learn/build. Everything I have learned about people since starting college has told me that this is a net negative.
- xtiansimon 7y ago
  >> ‘...look back at my "smartness" as a kind of attention-seeking behavior...’ Isn’t attention-seeking sort of hard-wired into all dependent animals? So, well. You’re normal there.
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Believe me, it’s much worse being considered not intelligent instead. I knew so many people growing up that were orders of magnitude more intelligent and accomplished than me (and I still do).
hooande 7y ago
If you're really smart, you won't need someone to tell you that. It will be evident. Once you realize you're playing a level up, you won't need encouragement from authority figures. You'll be trying to reach and surpass the greats, all on your own.
lawn 7y ago
Growing up with the "smart" label was the worst thing that happened for me and my education. It made me lazy and I almost never got challenged. If I had grown up in a challenging environment I could've easily progressed years faster (in areas like math and programming) than I did. I didn't have any parental pressure, or pressure of any kind either. It wasn't until middle of the University I learned that I actually had to work and study to understanding something.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  You weren't challenged because the school system regards every child who gets an A as a success, full stop. That they put no effort into doing so or were capable of learning the requisite material three years before is immaterial. The smart label is irrelevant compared to the incentives teachers and administrators labour under and they get nothing for helping children fulfil their potential. They’re judged by average achievement on tests set for average children.
akhilcacharya 7y ago
I grew up similarly but with very different results because I’m not intelligent - the proof is in me not getting into MIT. I think you’re the odd one out here.
usbseeker 7y ago
Has your experience led you to develop any innovations?

rjsw 7y ago

Seems to me that having the label gives you confidence that if you think you understand something then you are probably correct. You can then build on that to learn the next thing quicker.

XMPPwocky 7y ago

> And more importantly, the fact that I believed it meant that I was able to operate free of insecurities or imposter syndrome that so many of my peers faced. How the heck did you convince yourself to believe it? As a "gifted" kid, what I learned very quickly was that adults will happily exaggerate minor talents (which one acquires primarily through just spending time on them, a task made markedly easier when everybody else hates you) to absurdity- at one point I got an evaluation back from a summer program at Stanford telling me I might grow up to be "one of the best programmers of our age". What did I do to earn such acclaim? Got ahead of the rest of the class making a game, read the documentation for Flash, and used the extra time to add "voice controls" to my game (specifically, you'd shoot by yelling anything into your microphone, it was just triggered by levels.) Seriously- how can you take that sort of praise seriously, and not just as a "look at the cute kid who knows more Adobe Flash than the rest of his age group"?

XMPPwocky 7y ago
As an afterthought, the one thing I do actually find to help with my self-esteem is finding security bugs in places I know others have already looked. There, it's objective- you did something nobody else could. That... that's believable. But essentially any praise from humans is not.
- em-bee 7y ago
  or just to be able to keep going until i find that bug where others have given up.
pizza 7y ago
It's nice to hear I'm not the only one as a kid whose reflex was to get suspicious of/thought it was lazy when/ people would quickly decide "you're smart". It seemed to me just like a way to score cheap points. It also made me feel worse about not understanding things easily.. people were telling me I was smart, after all! :P My sister, on the other hand, gets annoyed at my perspective - she finds it tiresome when people can't take the compliment. There's wisdom to both ways, I guess.
- striking 7y ago
  You can be nice about a well-meaning but ultimately misguided complement without taking it seriously.
  - pizza 7y ago
    Agreed, though it took me an embarrassingly long time to realize that, haha.
  - alexanderdmitri 7y ago
    Someone once pointed out to me I had a tendency to momentarily scowl when complimented and then pretend I hadn't heard it. Made sense because compliments made me feel weird, even though I freely gave them out. Since then I've trained myself to smile, make eye-contact and say "Thank you, I accept your compliment with confidence," before returning to the matter at hand.

shripadk 7y ago

The difference is subtle. The difference is that you were called "smart" in the areas you showed interest in. That propelled you to improve further and always be ahead of your contemporaries. In her case (and many in China and India - where I come from) society has certain expectations from you. It doesn't matter if you are interested in something else entirely. Maybe you have a liking for arts. Or for music. These are considered "secondary". There are certain core subjects that you have to compulsorily master else you won't have any "value" in society. Now when you get labelled "smart" for something you have no interest in but you have to do because you have no choice that label doesn't really give you any satisfaction. It just so happens that you did it because the society wants you to. Not because you want to. And then you have to live up to the label now that everyone knows you are "smart". It is a vicious cycle that is hard to get out of. That doesn't mean the society discourages you from learning arts, music or anything else. You have to make room for it in your spare time. Also, examinations to get into prestigious universities are brutal compared to the West. Around a million students (10.43 lakhs in 2018) take up the IIT JEE exam and only around 10,000 qualify. You can take a look at how tough the exam is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_x13xHjVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_x13xHjVs To prepare for this, you would have to spend countless hours solving and sleepless nights studying. And even after all that, your chance at success is 1%. I am not even considering Medical (NEET), MBA (CAT) or Civil Services (UPSC) which is equally hard. EDIT: Corrected 0.01% to 1%.

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Around a million students (10.43 lakhs in 2018) take up the IIT JEE exam and only around 10,000 qualify. > To prepare for this, you would have to spend countless hours solving and sleepless nights studying. And even after all that, your chance at success is 0.01%. Your numbers suggest 1%, not 0.01%. 0.01% of a million examinees would be 100 passing scores.
- shripadk 7y ago
  Ah sorry I meant to say 1% (I was thinking 0.01 in my head). Edited it. Thanks!

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

chess93 7y ago

I'm glad the label worked for you but it did not work at all for me. It kind of shoehorned me in to a personality type and limited my social options. In all honesty I look back at my "smartness" as a kind of attention-seeking behavior where all I really wanted was the attention you got from getting the highest grade in the class or being the only one from your school to go to the ivy league. To me, the smart label just means you are willing to sacrifice more than others to study/learn/build. Everything I have learned about people since starting college has told me that this is a net negative.

xtiansimon 7y ago
>> ‘...look back at my "smartness" as a kind of attention-seeking behavior...’ Isn’t attention-seeking sort of hard-wired into all dependent animals? So, well. You’re normal there.
akhilcacharya 7y ago
Believe me, it’s much worse being considered not intelligent instead. I knew so many people growing up that were orders of magnitude more intelligent and accomplished than me (and I still do).

hooande 7y ago

If you're really smart, you won't need someone to tell you that. It will be evident. Once you realize you're playing a level up, you won't need encouragement from authority figures. You'll be trying to reach and surpass the greats, all on your own.

lawn 7y ago

Growing up with the "smart" label was the worst thing that happened for me and my education. It made me lazy and I almost never got challenged. If I had grown up in a challenging environment I could've easily progressed years faster (in areas like math and programming) than I did. I didn't have any parental pressure, or pressure of any kind either. It wasn't until middle of the University I learned that I actually had to work and study to understanding something.

barry-cotter 7y ago
You weren't challenged because the school system regards every child who gets an A as a success, full stop. That they put no effort into doing so or were capable of learning the requisite material three years before is immaterial. The smart label is irrelevant compared to the incentives teachers and administrators labour under and they get nothing for helping children fulfil their potential. They’re judged by average achievement on tests set for average children.

akhilcacharya 7y ago

I grew up similarly but with very different results because I’m not intelligent - the proof is in me not getting into MIT. I think you’re the odd one out here.

usbseeker 7y ago

Has your experience led you to develop any innovations?